Kontakt 5 volume level changes, and I can't figure out why.

[gopher]

I just installed Kontakt 5 a couple days ago.

I am noticing that if I change the volume level, in the Kontakt patch which I have loaded, that each time I rewind and start playback the volume level slider within Kontakt immediately moves back to the level which it was at when I loaded the patch.

The volume envelope in the automation track seems to effect the volume slider in the Kontakt patch. When I use it to adjust that slider, the slider still snaps back to a default position upon pressing play. This happens even though the Pro Tools MIDI track volume automation level doesn't have any change that would indicate that this should happen.

It seems like there is some sort of hidden CC#7 message being sent by Pro Tools and I can't find it to clear it out.

I temporarily made the issue stop by turning Automation to "off", but now I can't expect to have any automation.

I hope I must be missing some small detail or setting.

Any thoughts?

Thank You.

[Vovique]

you need to turn off
" Accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan"
for each KONTAKT instrument. (Wrench button > Instrument Options > Controller
> Accept standard controllers for Volume and
Pan check box << UNCHECK). Hsven't tried this myself, but hope it helps!

[gopher]

Thanks,
I'm on the road today, I'll give that a shot tomorrow.

Thank You!

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Vovique

you need to turn off
" Accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan"
for each KONTAKT instrument. (Wrench button > Instrument Options > Controller
> Accept standard controllers for Volume and
Pan check box << UNCHECK). Hsven't tried this myself, but hope it helps!

There's no need to do that and can actually be dangerous. I'd suggest looking in the MIDI event list for the track for cc7 messages. Volume automation lane data won't show there and cc7 messages won't show in the automation lane.

[gopher]

Ok,

Hi Vovique,

I unchecked the Kontakt Instrument > Tools (wrench icon) > Instrument Options > Accept Standard controllers for Volume and Pan

and I turned the tracks Automation back to Auto Read.

I was able to hit play and the volume sliders within Kontakt stayed where I placed them.

As an experiment, I modified the envelope in the "MIDI Vol" lane. As soon as I hit play the volume sliders within the Kontakt instruments all snapped to arbitrary positions. When I say "arbitrary" I mean to differentiate between the levels the sliders jump to in this case and the "default" levels which the sliders jump to in the other circumstances. Evidently the volume command in the MIDI Vol envelope lane is not a "standard controller". ???


Hi Jack,
I added a CC7 event in the MIDI event list. I turned the automation back to "Auto Read" and when I hit play the volume sliders within the Kontakt instruments snapped to their default positions so I can't set each instrument at the level I hope for. There is some sort of automation causing those sliders to move but it is not visible in the MIDI event list.





I switched the automation mode in my MIDI track back to "Auto Off" and the volume sliders within the Kontakt instruments stay where I put them.


As a comparison I tried this in another DAW and the sliders stay right where I put them without an surprises, that's why it has surprised me to see this in my first few days of using Kontakt in Pro Tools.

I hope I can figure out what small setting I need to learn about.

Thanks.

[John_Toolbox]

I don't know if this is a bug or by design, but this is how CC7 works in Pro Tools :

All Pro Tools tracks default to having CC7 set to a value of 100, even before you record anything. Take a look at the automation lane for "Midi Volume" (see screenshot). It doesn't say it, but this outputs CC7. Even with the one breakpoint of a value of 100 that it defaults to, the event for this breakpoint does not show up in the MIDI event list unless you adjust it. If you adjust this single breakpoint with the grabber tool, you will then see the event in the event list. However, deleting the adjusted event from the event list will not kill the MIDI volume automation. And unfortunately, there is no way to disable CC7 via the "add/remove controllers" dialogue, so you're stuck with it, unless you do one of the following:
1. disable automation on the track itself
2. disable CC7 in Kontakt. (via settings or by scripting).

You really need to assess this on a case by case basis. Obviously you may want automation for other things, so turning off track automation is not always ideal. Some Kontakt instruments are scripted to respond to CC7 and do more than just volume adjustments when they recieve this CC. So disabling CC7 input from Kontakt could change the timbre of your instrument, depending on what you are using.

CC7 can be a problem in other programs too. In Logic, it is intercepted by the track fader, and is not sent to the instrument at all.

[gopher]

Thank You John,
I just ran a test in another DAW where you actually have to add a Midi Volume Envelope if you want one.
As soon as I added the envelope I saw that I had the same issues, and realized that I had rarely used such an envelope in that DAW and that is why I had not recognized these issues before.

Realizing that Pro tools is sending the CC7 info out even if you don't see it in the MIDI event list explains why it is happening and now I think I understand my choices.

Thank you to everyone for the help.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by John_Toolbox

I don't know if this is a bug or by design, but this is how CC7 works in Pro Tools :

All Pro Tools tracks default to having CC7 set to a value of 100, even before you record anything. Take a look at the automation lane for "Midi Volume" (see screenshot). It doesn't say it, but this outputs CC7. Even with the one breakpoint of a value of 100 that it defaults to, the event for this breakpoint does not show up in the MIDI event list unless you adjust it. If you adjust this single breakpoint with the grabber tool, you will then see the event in the event list. However, deleting the adjusted event from the event list will not kill the MIDI volume automation. And unfortunately, there is no way to disable CC7 via the "add/remove controllers" dialogue, so you're stuck with it, unless you do one of the following:
1. disable automation on the track itself
2. disable CC7 in Kontakt. (via settings or by scripting).

You really need to assess this on a case by case basis. Obviously you may want automation for other things, so turning off track automation is not always ideal. Some Kontakt instruments are scripted to respond to CC7 and do more than just volume adjustments when they recieve this CC. So disabling CC7 input from Kontakt could change the timbre of your instrument, depending on what you are using.

CC7 can be a problem in other programs too. In Logic, it is intercepted by the track fader, and is not sent to the instrument at all.

Thanks John; never knew this for all the time I've been working with PT. I thought the default volume was whatever the vi had.

[Glenjb]

Originally Posted by John_Toolbox

All Pro Tools tracks default to having CC7 set to a value of 100, even before you record anything. Take a look at the automation lane for "Midi Volume" (see screenshot).

Not to nitpick but isn't the default 96 rather than 100?

[John_Toolbox]

Originally Posted by Glenjb

Not to nitpick but isn't the default 96 rather than 100?

Perhaps. I always remember it being 100, but I haven't used anything with CC7 in PT for a while.