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  #561  
Old 10-18-2014, 08:06 PM
CME CME is offline
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Default New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
The way I understand it license assets don't expire - you still have those in perpetuity. The only thing that expires if you don't pay the Avid Tax is your ability to get upgrades. You still retain the ability to get bug fixes.

Of course this assumes Avid doesn't go into everyone's iLok account and change the license assets to subscription only so that the next time you go to sync/repair your iLok all of a sudden you're 'permanent' PT license has become subscription. And you have to verify your system online once a month. This latter thought is pure speculation but not beyond the realm of possibility.

All of a sudden DP8 is starting to look good again and it has track freeze.

I think this will be Avid's approach. I think they will release the new features they've been advertising as pt 11.5 early next year. And make it require an 11.5 license, so that those of us that are already on 11 have to pay the $199 to get those features. As a show of the "good works" they're doing, they'll add some new features every month or so.

But when they decide to really go full-bore with pt12, in say April 2015, they make all pt12 licenses a 12 month expiring license. They very well could. It would still keep Tony's promise that your pt11 license will be permanent. And as the math was pointed out a while back, it would be cheaper to skip a couple of versions and then buy another outright license. Unless there's no way to buy an outright license. Only licenses you have to renew every year/month/week. Whatever options avid decides to use. There's nothing stopping them, other than common sense and an outright pitchfork wielding angry mob. And the that hasn't slowed then down yet.
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  #562  
Old 10-18-2014, 08:13 PM
Chingy Chingy is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

If I have PT 11 HD, can I downgrade for $199? Or it might make sense for me to try to sell the PT 11 HD license and buy a PT 11 standard license new? Avid's store is showing a new PT 11 standard license as $899...they must be joking.
  #563  
Old 10-18-2014, 08:34 PM
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Shifted Music Shifted Music is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

They are not joking...

$899 and thats not for HD Software which is NOT at all available for purchase separately.

These people actually think this software is worth that compared to the competition.

These are the people who's software WE RELY on. thats how out to lunch they are...

Be if for the board room or just plain stupidity. either way these are the folks who's salaries WE PAY with these upgrades.

If we want change - Don't Buy!

It's that simple.
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  #564  
Old 10-18-2014, 09:11 PM
gtrm8kr gtrm8kr is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifted Music View Post
$899 and thats not for HD Software which is NOT at all available for purchase separately.
Don't forget the additional rental functions, whatever they may turn out to be - and however much they may turn out to cost. The total cost of ownership for PT "vanilla" is just another tool, though, for AVID to move the smaller budget customers off their platform - or in this case, keep them from buying into Pro Tools in the first place. $899 feels to me like it's a "I don't want to sell this" price.
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  #565  
Old 10-18-2014, 10:10 PM
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussUK View Post
I'll leave it to Bobby O to make a point on this comment which summarises much of the core to Avid's ongoing problems.

"The Avid saga is just another example of a technology company in a small market that’s based around creative professionals. A company like this has no business being public in the first place as it’s growth will be capped by the market size sooner or later. A public company is more beholden to its stockholders than its customers, especially when things go bad, which is a bad recipe when it comes to the entertainment industry."

Read the entire article here
That's in a nutshell what's probably going on.

Avid's biggest pro competition is clearly their own older systems. While people scream and yell about the cost of upgrades, I can think of a dozen busy multi-platinum studios, producers and Oscar-winning sound designers who haven't upgraded anything since the intel macs came out. Used Pro Tools TDM systems are also a huge part of their competition.

It's also clear that Avid's every attempt to expand their market by addressing hobbyists has failed financially. I'm sure they're also smart enough to understand that dropping the price isn't likely to result in attracting people from other platforms. We all have far too much sweat equity and archived work invested in whatever DAW we use to seriously consider switching. That fact protects every single DAW developer from competition.

Digi's old $50 LE upgrades every two years are over because Avid obviously can't afford it and, judging by their financials, probably couldn't afford it before. It was always the bargain of the century compared to their competition. Every time people complained about how they were getting killed by Pro Tools upgrade costs, I got out my checkbook and was floored by how little I'd spent over the years compared to other software. I'd love to pay way less for housing, transportation and food too...

When I put myself in Avid's place, what they are offering actually makes a lot of sense.

Rental is an attractive option for students learning Pro Tools. Students must learn Pro Tools in order to get an entry-level job. Other DAWs are the domain of the self employed who rarely hire assistants. Rental gets a student up and running with full technical support for when they get in trouble. Rental also allows pros to add an extra rig for a few months to handle a big job when long term investment in an additional system would make no financial sense. That isn't for me but I certainly can relate to it.

For pro facilities who only upgrade every 5-10 years which typically also involves a new computer and interfaces, a new perpetual license isn't that expensive although most are already getting a license as part of their new system. Many of these folks also lease their big PT rigs, computer and all. Again it's not for me but also not unreasonable.

For those of us doing a lot of pro work out of our home, the new collaboration features in the support contract along with the ongoing upgrades that allow us to make incremental system upgrades could be very attractive depending on a whole lot of details we don't know yet. It doesn't add up to much more than one pays to keep many of Pro Tools' competitors up to date and lots of us are already spending money on storage and collaboration.
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  #566  
Old 10-18-2014, 11:00 PM
Mork_ Mork_ is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Avid store currently showing "no stock" on all versions? http://shop.avid.com/ccrz__products?...&g=&store=shop
  #567  
Old 10-18-2014, 11:01 PM
propower propower is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

For me its real simple:

Fact: I have been informed that my PT11HD license will no longer be upgradeable at the end of 2015.
Fact: I have been told that for $599 I can have all the updates and upgrades until end of March 2016

Do not know:
- What the charge for continuing my license agreement is after 3/2016 if I do take the current $599 deal (no one says it will be $599/year)
- What the charge for getting a new HD license after the end of 2015 will be if I don;t do the current $599 deal (or if this will even be an option)
- What the charge for purely renting HD software after the end of 2015 will be

I find it unreasonable not to be told these things whilst being informed that my license will no longer be upgradeable.
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  #568  
Old 10-18-2014, 11:42 PM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
That's in a nutshell what's probably going on.

Avid's biggest pro competition is clearly their own older systems. While people scream and yell about the cost of upgrades, I can think of a dozen busy multi-platinum studios, producers and Oscar-winning sound designers who haven't upgraded anything since the intel macs came out. Used Pro Tools TDM systems are also a huge part of their competition.

It's also clear that Avid's every attempt to expand their market by addressing hobbyists has failed financially. I'm sure they're also smart enough to understand that dropping the price isn't likely to result in attracting people from other platforms. We all have far too much sweat equity and archived work invested in whatever DAW we use to seriously consider switching. That fact protects every single DAW developer from competition.

Digi's old $50 LE upgrades every two years are over because Avid obviously can't afford it and, judging by their financials, probably couldn't afford it before. It was always the bargain of the century compared to their competition. Every time people complained about how they were getting killed by Pro Tools upgrade costs, I got out my checkbook and was floored by how little I'd spent over the years compared to other software. I'd love to pay way less for housing, transportation and food too...

When I put myself in Avid's place, what they are offering actually makes a lot of sense.

Rental is an attractive option for students learning Pro Tools. Students must learn Pro Tools in order to get an entry-level job. Other DAWs are the domain of the self employed who rarely hire assistants. Rental gets a student up and running with full technical support for when they get in trouble. Rental also allows pros to add an extra rig for a few months to handle a big job when long term investment in an additional system would make no financial sense. That isn't for me but I certainly can relate to it.

For pro facilities who only upgrade every 5-10 years which typically also involves a new computer and interfaces, a new perpetual license isn't that expensive although most are already getting a license as part of their new system. Many of these folks also lease their big PT rigs, computer and all. Again it's not for me but also not unreasonable.

For those of us doing a lot of pro work out of our home, the new collaboration features in the support contract along with the ongoing upgrades that allow us to make incremental system upgrades could be very attractive depending on a whole lot of details we don't know yet. It doesn't add up to much more than one pays to keep many of Pro Tools' competitors up to date and lots of us are already spending money on storage and collaboration.
There you go again Bob making complete sense. :)

I think the issue for most is not that Avid have to make money (only an idiot would think they are running a charity) but the disingenuous nature of their dealings with the user base.
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  #569  
Old 10-19-2014, 12:13 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussUK View Post
There you go again Bob making complete sense. :)

I think the issue for most is not that Avid have to make money (only an idiot would think they are running a charity) but the disingenuous nature of their dealings with the user base.
The disingenuous nature of the dealings and just years of floundering around from one failed thing to the next. How can anybody have any confidence they are being dealt with honestly and clearly, how can anybody have any confidence that Avid can pull themselves out of the dark place they are in (it is likely impossible) when they keep floundering around, for God's sake they are a technology company that cannot even clearly and intelligently manage the announcement of a new pricing structure for a flagship product.

The DAW market will continue to be commoditized, Avid cannot do anything to stop that, they could/should try to add high-end infrastructure and services around the DAW and production workflow, asset management, collaboration, workflow management, automation, etc. all great stuff, but they need to lose the idea that they can keep returning to their user base to suck more blood out of it for a core DAW product. They just cannot sustain high cost of ownership on basic DAW functionality--not when other DAWs basic functionality can embarrass Pro Tools. Very capable DAWs are $200-$400. That is the reality that is catching up to Avid. Migration from Pro Tools will be slow, it always is for an entrenched infrastructure, but it will happen, it is happening.
  #570  
Old 10-19-2014, 01:40 AM
paflechat paflechat is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Avid seems to be dying... I will keep my nice PT10+CPTK2 and have a look at Nuendo !!
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