Protools HD11 - Coreaudio - negative H/W Insert Offset required?

[Matt Hepworth]

Have you posted to Lynx? I've had good support from them. Can't help with the CoreAudio questions, since I don't use it or know how it behaves with hardware inserts.

[LDS]

Hey Matt!

I have - the response was "try entering a negative value" in the H/W Offset Delay tab.

It doesn't work - Protools throws up a "value outside the required ranges of 0 - 1000) or something along those lines. The H/W offset delay is a positive value, but it is subtracted from the total delay compensation from what I have witnessed. That is what puzzles me - why is protools compensating too much for hardware inserts in my system?

While I am not inclined to rule out the LT-USB card as a contributor to this issue, both Protools HD and Protools Vanilla don't have even remotely modern ADC implementation when it comes to running ASIO/Coreaudio drivers and handling hardware inserts.

Heck, if Avid could revamp the hardware insert "plugin" to include output and input level meters plus a "ping" function that calculates the ADC requirements upon initiation I would be a very happy man. As it stands, even Ableton Live handles outboard inserts better than either version of Protools running coreaudio/asio interfaces.

[nigelpry]

Originally Posted by LDS

Heck, if Avid could revamp the hardware insert "plugin" to include output and input level meters plus a "ping" function that calculates the ADC requirements upon initiation I would be a very happy man. As it stands, even Ableton Live handles outboard inserts better than either version of Protools running coreaudio/asio interfaces.

Now THAT is a 'cool new feature' that really would have me thinking seriously about getting on the support plan!

Hardware inserts on non-HD gear, even with HD software, is ok so long as you don't mind a bit of timing 'looseness'. For me, its ok most of the time, a few samples out on outboard reverbs is neither here nor there, IMO.

But, compared to, say, Cubase, PT's hardware inserts facilities are definitely striaght out of the dark ages.

[Digiface]

I have the same problem. For two months, no solution found.
:

[DigiTechSupt]

I could not reproduce this with Pro Tools HD 11.2.1 on OS X 10.8.5 with a few different interfaces, but did see it occasionally with an Alesis iO|2 (have not found repeatable steps to make this happen though, and it was pretty rare). I don't have an Aurora 16 or Orion 32 to test.

• Pro Tools|Quartet (USB) - New audio was consistently about 18 samples late regardless of H/W Buffer Size. Setting the H/W Insert Delay to 0.41 lined up the new audio.
  
• Focusrite Saffire (FireWire) - New audio was consistently about 51 samples late regardless of H/W Buffer Size. Setting the H/W Insert Delay to 1.16 lined up the new audio.
  
• Mbox Pro (FireWire) - New audio is always aligned at any H/W Buffer Size (Mbox Pro has a dedicated driver that handles this).
  
• Alesis iO|2 (USB) - New audio was late by differing amounts based on H/W Buffer Size (but consistent with each pass using that setting). A couple times, after changing H/W Buffer Size to 32 it placed new audio 3 samples early. Toggling to another setting and back (e.g. to 64 then back to 32) made it place the audio late, so H/W Insert Delay could then align it.

So it seems like a device/driver/setting issue with specific interfaces.

1. What are your other settings in the Playback Engine window?
   
2. Does the problem change with different H/W Buffer Sizes?
   
3. Do you have another interface to try?

Originally Posted by LDS

...if Avid could revamp the hardware insert "plugin" to include output and input level meters plus a "ping" function that calculates the ADC requirements upon initiation I would be a very happy man...

"Ping Detection for HW Insert Delay" is already a feature request if you want to vote for it.

Regards,
JC

[LDS]

Hey JC!

Thank you for your reply. I will run some more tests, trying changing buffer sizes, etc as well as repeating them on a 2013 macbook air and post the results.

[fsavell]

Originally Posted by LDS

Hey JC!

Thank you for your reply. I will run some more tests, trying changing buffer sizes, etc as well as repeating them on a 2013 macbook air and post the results.

Hey LDS

I was using a Lynx Aurora with PT10/11 HDX, but ended up giving up and getting an Avid interface.

While I love the Aurora interface, there's a whole lotta issues going on, that Lynx Support weren't able to answer for me, mostly related to H/W Inserts and clocking, as I was also trying to run it with a 192. Its a real long story of my woes with this unit which came after upgrading to the latest firmware (so it appeared as the Avid HDI/O in PT, for use with PT10 & HDX).

I spent hours on the phone and multiple in depth emails detailing my problems and how to repeat it, but they never saw it to an end and I couldn't carry on with such an unstable device in my rig, so it was replaced.

Maybe you're having different troubles, but sounds pretty similar.

Might be worth trying an Avid HD I/O see if that has same issues, as when I changed over, everything was instantly fixed. Sounds great too.

Forrester

[LDS]

Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt

So it seems like a device/driver/setting issue with specific interfaces.

1. What are your other settings in the Playback Engine window?
   
2. Does the problem change with different H/W Buffer Sizes?
   
3. Do you have another interface to try?

Regards,
JC

Hi JC,

I had a chance to run some tests. Unfortunately I don't have another interface to test this with. I will see if I can get my hands on one.

I have attached a screenshot of the playback engine window.
I ran a test after changing the sample buffer from 128 -> 256 -> 512 -> 1024.

The resulting audio was the same 7 samples ahead every time.

This test was done with PT HD 11.2.2.

[LDS]

Up.

[LDS]

bump.