what does the 002 give you that the mBox does not?

[hilliard]

If I only need 2 channels (just recording a single stereo track at a time, doing multiple overdubs, etc), what are the advantages (if any) of the 002 over the mbox?

A few production partners have expressed views that the mbox will not allow me to work with their 002 (and 001) projects. I think they are mistaken, and maybe just a bit leary of the cheap/small factor of the mbox, but if the 002 is the better choice (keeping in mind that we do not need to record more than 1 take/track at a time), than maybe I made a mistake getting the mbox. Whaddya think?

I have noticed the latency issue with the mbox, and i must say that I don't really dig this mix knob solution. I need to do vocal punch in's (fixes and such) at certain points in a track, and I need to hear the track as it is right up to the point of the punch in. I have tried this solution to latency on the mbox, which also involves muting the track that you are recording onto....well, as you can imagine that doesn't really work out so great when you need to hear the track that you are recording onto (punching in).

Am I just doing something wrong?

Does the 002's latency solution (menu select "low latency monitoring") work better for what I need?

Also, as a side note, I have also experienced a lateness (same latency?) on the very start of a triggered sequencer/workstation's tracks (Roland XP-50), when I'm trying to track out a sequenced tune as purely audio into PT. In other words, I seem to be missing out on the very beginning (down beat), when I record track-by-track.

Is this another mbox only problem? Or does the 002 have the same issue?

Or, again, am I just doing something wrong?

My partners use the 002 (and the 001) with a Korg Triton, but I know that we have triggered my XP-50 with their gear in the past, with no probs.....weird!

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. If I need to (or just should) try to return the mbox and get the 002, maybe I need to hear it from ya'll. I tried to go the cheap route, knowing that I was doing pretty basic/limited recording. Since I didn't need the 4 or 8 inputs, or the firewire hookup, I went with the mbox. Maybe the USB/MIDI on the mbox is hosing me over...dunno.

Not even sure if I can return the mbox to get the 002. It's only 2 weeks old, and Guitar Center has a 30 day return policy, but they might not do it since it does have software included....they get a bit weird on some things. Of course, my argument would be that I'm just getting a more expensive version of the same product, not like I'd be getting some free software from them, right?

HELP!?!?!?!

[Rabidium]

yeah, bunch of q's here eh? well, I'm killing time...

As far as punch-in, it's a waste in this day and age. Create a new track, start recording a few measures back and just trim the new region into your old track. Problem solved.

as far as the track sync, try moving the track a few seconds away to the right. Does this solve the probleM? What if you record a few beats, or just blank noise before you're really starting?

Guitar Center's policy is No Questions Asked, and since PT software doesn't do jack without the hardware, that sort of argument would hold no water.

so the big question is up in the air, the 002 has better pre/converters than the M, the multiple audio ins may come in handy for multiple miking situations, and of course it must be much easier to mix on. Other than that, it's a price difference as far as I can see. The software's the same, and all LE versions should work with all other LE's, regardless of Mbox, AM3, 001, 002, 002R or whatever... as long as the software version numbers are the same. (i.e. no 6 with 5)
IF you have the money, and like cool toys, go for it, many of us would kill for a 002. If you're able to work the workarounds above or figure out other workarounds for your issues as they come up(search the duc), screw it, save a couple g's and go with what you got.
-Olaf
001 owner, and massively uninformed, but logical sounding answerer.

[KingFish]

I understand Rabidium's solution, as a "work around", but I (just personally) can't work like that, and would never "Track" on an M-box for that reason.

from recording on 2 track reel to reels, to multi-track tape decks, to pro-tools, I have always monitored my input "Through" the recording unit, yes, punch ins can be "peeled back" now, but I like to listen to playback, check passes, let the player, or singer, hear the part in the pre-roll, for familluarity, and dodging the mute button, and mix knob, is not an option for me, my M-box is really only used for editing, beginning to tweak mixes, archiving sessions, and for when I'm in planes, hotel rooms, or on the road.

I really wish they'd just included the 2 channel LLM circuit that's in the 001 / 002 in the existing 2 channels on the M-box... IMO it would be way more usefull a unit.

I remember how dissapointed I was to see the whole "mix knob" thing, as their latency solution on this unit.

The 002's are way more expensive, but I'm comfortable doing 2 channel overdubs on the 002. so for me (and just my opinion) the 002 is the "entry level" professional recording hardware that dig currently makes.

[ejwells]

Well, it's MUCH more than a price difference.

The possibility of 18 track simultaneous recording w/ the 002, 4 onboard preamps that are pretty good, and Firewire connect. That's worth the extra 500 bucks right there. Take that Mbox back to Guitar Center...post haste.

[hilliard]

Well, first off, thanks for the feedback.

I tried a few things, after searching around here some more. I had my hardware buffer setting at the highest (1024?....dunno, I'm not in front of it right now). Anyway, I read somewhere here that for recording to set it to 128 or 256, and for playback to use 512 or 1024 (I think this is right). At any rate, when I changed it to the lowest setting, there was no latency that I could hear, and I had the mix knob centered, and did not mute the recording track.

I was able to do some synth overdubs, with no noticeable delay on anything. The punch in/out went smoothly.

This setting also fixed my "late start of the sequence" problem. when I tracked things out, XP-50 track at a time, the sequnce started/recorded directly on the down-beat, and I didn't have to use any pre-roll, or set-up any extra measures at the start to give time for everything to sunc up.

I hope this continues to work, although I'm a bit leary about that low setting working with more tracks and plugins, etc. I hope my system will be able to work at the lower setting. It is the "stock" emachines m6810 AMD Athlon 64, with 512 MB.

Think I'll have any issues continuing to work like this?


BTW, if it seems ok from here on out, and there's no compatability issues with the 002 or 001, as pertains to my partners' mac G4/G5 projects, I think I might just keep the mBox. I know that it has all the goodies you guys mentioned, but as I said, I don't think I'll need/use them (at least the ones I'm aware of).

I guess I need to experiment a bit more before the next 2 weeks are up....just in case I need that return policy at Guitar Center, eh?

[Obsidian Dragon]

Interesting discussion about the differences between the MBox and 002R (I assume you talking about the 002R since the 002 will cost about $1,000.00 more than the 002R). I've heard a few comments about the mic pres being better on the 002 than the MBox. Is that true? The Mbox has focusrite pre according to the specs. The 002/002R has...well...nothing to mention but four mic ins. Now don't get me wrong here as I have an 002 and love it. It's just strange that the MBox boast about having focusrite mic pres and yet you guys say the 002 have better mic pres. What's the truth?

[lemix]

Obsidian Dragon ,
Good Q,
Mbox pre=decent
002R pre=decent..
Name "alone" doesn't mean a thing. For example Focusrite has the following lines of equipment:
Mastering series/Original blue ISA series/Red/Green/Platinum series. In descending quality and $$$ order.
With a good microphone one can make a good recording on both boxes. With a great, external mic pre amplifier, well...you get the point...

happy tooling,

[hilliard]

Yep, I was deciding between keeping the mBox or returning it and getting the rack 002 (002R?).

So far, with some more experimenting, I'm ok with just keeping the mbox.....still got just under 2 more weeks to pull the trigger on the return....if I get talked into it, or if I find something I don't like or can't fix with the mbox.

I have yet to do vocals, so maybe I'll see something there. I'm no great vocalist, but I certainly do work some, so hopefully the quality is cool.

On a sorta side note (but still on the mic/pre/vocal quality tip), I'm considering getting the Studio Projects C1 mic (only $200!).

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C1Mic/

Anyone here used this mic? It has gotten rave reviews on some sites, especially for the $$$.

I know it may seem like I'm just going the cheapest way....well, I sorta am. My partners have the Neumann's and AKG's, so if I really need one I can use one of them, but for my home setup (at least getting down the orginal vocal ideas/trax, and maybe even some final takes if the mic sounds good enuff), I'm thinking about this C1, as I don't think I need the multiple patterns of the other version C3 ($350?).

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C3Mic/

Maybe this discussion doesn't even belong in this post, but if you have some input on this mic, too, I'd appreciate it.

[Obsidian Dragon]

lemix

Thanks for the reply. I am aware and agree that brand name alone is not a indication of the quality or performance of a mic pre. In general, focusrite has some pretty good products especially mic pres. Even their low end stuff is pretty good. Therefore I assume the ones in the MBox are pretty good. The mic pres in the 002/002R make no such claim (even though Digidesign is the North American distributor for Focusrite). They simply say it has four mic ins. I have been pretty happy with the 002 mic pres but have not been overly enthusiastic to brag about them since I don't know what brand and make they are.

Now brand name aside, I hear people her claiming that the 002 mic pres are much better than the MBox mic pres. Is that a fact? Is that true? Has there been head to head comparisons? Has there been a critical listening test? Has there been any measured tests indicating what characteristics are in each mic pre? I want facts and not just opinions. This hopefully will answer my questions as to whether I need to get external mic pres or not.

Thanks everybody

[tele_player]

I have a SP C1, it's a fine mic. The B1 is good also, and 1/2 the $$$. Another nice, even cheaper mic is the Apex 435.

Any of these will sound good with an Mbox, maybe even GREAT on some things. I've heard some nice tracks done on an Mbox with an MXL V67G, another <$100 mic.