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Old 02-16-2012, 10:26 AM
rockguitarist1255 rockguitarist1255 is offline
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Default What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

I use Addictive Drums for my drums, then i would like to record Addictive Drums to separate audio tracks for editing. The thing is, one of the Addictive Drum kit presets is set high, so when i play Addictive Drums back, it sometimes clips and goes red. I know thats not good, since i want to leave room for editing, but what color or level do i want to keep my drums at max? I heard i want to keep the drums at low yellow, or below red at peak. Is that bout right? Im just wondering since i base the rest of my songs, like guitar, and synth off the drums, volume wise, and i don't want the drums to be too loud so that i dont accidentally record the guitars too high and have everything clipping.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:34 AM
Nightworker Nightworker is offline
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

I'd keep things in the green barely touching the yellow.

The reason is simple, what you see is in the vu is what's coming in for each tracks. When you go and add eq's and effects that's going to add to the track. If you have everything in the upper yellow brushing the red, then when ever you will add eq, comp, expansion, and other effects, you will be clipping because you won't have enough headroom. Keep things in the green barely touching the yellow and when ever you add effects, you'll have plenty of headroom.
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Old 02-16-2012, 10:56 AM
rockguitarist1255 rockguitarist1255 is offline
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

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Originally Posted by Nightworker View Post
I'd keep things in the green barely touching the yellow.

The reason is simple, what you see is in the vu is what's coming in for each tracks. When you go and add eq's and effects that's going to add to the track. If you have everything in the upper yellow brushing the red, then when ever you will add eq, comp, expansion, and other effects, you will be clipping because you won't have enough headroom. Keep things in the green barely touching the yellow and when ever you add effects, you'll have plenty of headroom.
So when i keep everything in the green, even though it will sound like a lower volume at first, after i edit with eq and stuff and mix, and then master, the song should be at a good listening volume thats not too soft then correct?
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:13 AM
Nightworker Nightworker is offline
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

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Originally Posted by rockguitarist1255 View Post
So when i keep everything in the green, even though it will sound like a lower volume at first, after i edit with eq and stuff and mix, and then master, the song should be at a good listening volume thats not too soft then correct?
The Loudness is usually done at the mastering stage using compressors etc on the finished mix. In the mix stage what you want is to get the right tone (eq maybe some soft compressor to tame the transients, level out vocals from a vocalist that has a hard time being constant, etc), the right balance and pan stage for the instruments and vocals without peaking and adding unwanted artifact due to peaking.

So yes as you add EQ's and compressors and the like, your sound might get louder. Example you got a bass sample and you add 6 db in the low end, well your overall volume for the bass just got 6 db higher because you added that boost. That's the reason why you need headroom, because if you boost anything in an eq, or add reverb on the track it self instead of an aux track, then you get that overall volume louder for that track, and if you don't have head room you're going to peak.

And to answer your question, yes it will.
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PT 10. SIB 7. ProjectMix I/O. Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56. Focusrite Saffire pro 40. Genelec 8040. Axiom pro 61. Alesis Dm8 pro. Spector ns2000/5. Old vintage Vantage electric guitar. Bunch of VI's and plugins
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:17 AM
rockguitarist1255 rockguitarist1255 is offline
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

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Originally Posted by Nightworker View Post
The Loudness is usually done at the mastering stage using compressors etc on the finished mix. In the mix stage what you want is to get the right tone (eq maybe some soft compressor to tame the transients etc), the right balance, pan stage for the instruments and vocals without peaking and adding unwanted artifact due to peaking.

So yes as you add EQ's and compressors and the like, your sound might get louder. Example you got a bass sample and you add 6 db in the low end, well your overall volume for the bass just got 6 db higher because you added that boost. That's the reason why you need headroom, because if you boost anything in an eq, or add reverb on the track it self instead of an aux track, then you get that overall volume louder, and if you don't have head room you're going to peak.

And to answer your question, yes it will.
Okay i have one more question if you don't mind. I just opened up Addictive Drums, turned down the volume so that it barely hits yellow, so that there is headroom for when i edit the drums to audio tracks. That worked fine. My question though is, I have 4 stereo tracks for my lead guitar. I have them all routed to a stereo aux track with reverb. The 4 individual stereo tracks with guitar are in the green, no yellow, but the aux track with reverb that all 4 are sent to is hitting high yellow when i playback the 4 parts, even if i turn down the volume on the aux track. Do I want to set my levels for my guitar at the individual tracks, like all 4 that are in the green, or do i want to use the aux track that they are all sent to as the reference for my peak limit. Cuz like i said the 4 tracks individually are green, but since i sent them to an aux track, the aux track hits high yellow when i play all 4 back.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:14 PM
Nightworker Nightworker is offline
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

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Originally Posted by rockguitarist1255 View Post
Okay i have one more question if you don't mind. I just opened up Addictive Drums, turned down the volume so that it barely hits yellow, so that there is headroom for when i edit the drums to audio tracks. That worked fine. My question though is, I have 4 stereo tracks for my lead guitar. I have them all routed to a stereo aux track with reverb. The 4 individual stereo tracks with guitar are in the green, no yellow, but the aux track with reverb that all 4 are sent to is hitting high yellow when i playback the 4 parts, even if i turn down the volume on the aux track. Do I want to set my levels for my guitar at the individual tracks, like all 4 that are in the green, or do i want to use the aux track that they are all sent to as the reference for my peak limit. Cuz like i said the 4 tracks individually are green, but since i sent them to an aux track, the aux track hits high yellow when i play all 4 back.
Are all your 4 guitar tracks playing at the same time? If they are then it's normal because you have four sound source going into the same input, in this case the buss receive. You can reduce your send outputs (the fader in the send window) so that your input of the aux tracks are barely touching the yellow, or you can reduce the output of the reverb (gain) if you placed some in it. As long as your not peaking with the aux you'll be fine you won't have artifacts, and since it's a mix your doing of the dry (4 tracks) signal with the wet (aux track) then it wont matter too much, just make sure you're not peaking on the aux. The only thin in this case is; any other source you'll be feeding into that aux track, it will bring the volume up so at one point you'll be peaking.
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PT 10. SIB 7. ProjectMix I/O. Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56. Focusrite Saffire pro 40. Genelec 8040. Axiom pro 61. Alesis Dm8 pro. Spector ns2000/5. Old vintage Vantage electric guitar. Bunch of VI's and plugins
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:29 PM
rockguitarist1255 rockguitarist1255 is offline
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightworker View Post
Are all your 4 guitar tracks playing at the same time? If they are then it's normal because you have four sound source going into the same input, in this case the buss receive. You can reduce your send outputs (the fader in the send window) so that your input of the aux tracks are barely touching the yellow, or you can reduce the output of the reverb (gain) if you placed some in it. As long as your not peaking with the aux you'll be fine you won't have artifacts, and since it's a mix your doing of the dry (4 tracks) signal with the wet (aux track) then it wont matter too much, just make sure you're not peaking on the aux. The only thin in this case is; any other source you'll be feeding into that aux track, it will bring the volume up so at one point you'll be peaking.
Yeah they are playing at the same time. And i will just reduce the volume of each of the 4 tracks individually, so that they are the same volume and that it does not cause the aux to clip. The reverb is fine since i have it very low so it did not cause a volume increase when i put it on.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

The "green" is perfect. 24bit word has 144dB dynamics and your end product most likely only has 14dB or less. There's no point in trying to "hit zero" when tracking! There are possible problems, but not a single benefit from doing so.

Even if you left 48dB headroom, you would still have a full 16bit word (96dB) to play with, and I think quite many of us can agree that CD's can play loud enough...

Anyone want to try recording way lower than the green/yellow line? There's a volume knob on your monitor controller, use it for volume.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

+1 for staying in the green, especially when using heat or if there are many tracks.

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Old 02-17-2012, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: What level should i keep my drums so theres enough room for editing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightworker View Post
I'd keep things in the green barely touching the yellow.
Great Advice.. I believe they are colored that way for obvious reasons

There's nothing worse than trying to tweak a snare that is red lining...and already over compressed.

You might want to be sure you are recording 32-bit also, just in case your gain staging gets sacked.. or at least until you get more comfortable with it.
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