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  #11  
Old 03-19-2005, 07:59 AM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first tim

Quote:
I thought I would chime in and mention some things that would be nice additions to DigiDelivery.

1-Physical noise- This box has the loudest fans on the face of the earth. It is an absolute must to have a machine room to contain its outrageously loud fans. Perhaps in the future a larger case with some larger, low velocity fans.

2-With the addition of the Server to Server relay feature, there is less feedback as to what stage a delivery is in. Before the Server to Server function, a delivery would require the client software to receive a delivery which did give some (but limited) feedback as to the progress and speed of a delivery. This is only an issue if there is a DigiDelivery box on both ends. The Server to Server function can be turned off. Perhaps if DigiDelivery could send an e-mail when it negotiates a Server to Server connection with an estimated time of arrival and or a small application could be created to display connection conditions and estimated time of arrival.

3-In the extremely rare occasion that a delivery gets partially delivered but fails, it would be advantageous for DigiDelivery to have the smarts to decode or open a partial delivery, create a list of the files that didn't make it and allow the remaining files to be send again in a new delivery. Currently if a delivery gets 99% received and fails, you have to start over if it can't figure out how to recover. This is a very rare condition.

4-Forwarding - Might be nice to add a feature that would allow a received delivery to be forwarded to another Digidelivery server. This might be a feature in the GT server already, I don't know I have an LT server.

5-Alternate use -DigiDelivery would make a great temporary backup storage device. Please give it the smarts to track a session and back up at predetermined thresholds like Mezzo is supposed to. Then if sessions could be archived to multiple DVDs, life would be perfect.

Since Digidelivery doesn't allow you to mix, edit, compose, or convert audio but just sends and receives files in a simple and elegant manner, Digidesign just got this box 99% right. There really is very little to complain about. I know that is counter to the fun that everyone has on the DUC. Sorry, it just works. Buy one and see.
Could you add these to the wish list thread?
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2005, 05:28 PM
sleadley sleadley is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first time!

Quote:


So I don't a appear as the paid plant that I am, I thought I would chime in and mention some things that would be nice additions to DigiDelivery.

1-Physical noise- This box has the loudest fans on the face of the earth. It is an absolute must to have a machine room to contain its outrageously loud fans. Perhaps in the future a larger case with some larger, low velocity fans.
I 100% agree. The fans are so loud that it is ridiculous. I had them in our equipment rack that is one door from the studio (and the racks have doors on them, and it was still too loud. On friday we moved it to the electrical room to get it away from us.

Quote:
2-With the addition of the Server to Server relay feature, there is less feedback as to what stage a delivery is in. Before the Server to Server function, a delivery would require the client software to receive a delivery which did give some (but limited) feedback as to the progress and speed of a delivery. This is only an issue if there is a DigiDelivery box on both ends. The Server to Server function can be turned off. Perhaps if DigiDelivery could send an e-mail when it negotiates a Server to Server connection with an estimated time of arrival and or a small application could be created to display connection conditions and estimated time of arrival.
Good point

Quote:

3-In the extremely rare occasion that a delivery gets partially delivered but fails, it would be advantageous for DigiDelivery to have the smarts to decode or open a partial delivery, create a list of the files that didn't make it and allow the remaining files to be send again in a new delivery. Currently if a delivery gets 99% received and fails, you have to start over if it can't figure out how to recover. This is a very rare condition.
Good point. I had a delivery that failed (as the assisitant moved the server {see above} while an upload was in progress) and I then had to redo the delivery. There was little or no feedback to indicate what the problem was except an innocuous error message in the Delivery log.....
"Error:
What's a '38663163'?"


Quote:
4-Forwarding - Might be nice to add a feature that would allow a received delivery to be forwarded to another Digidelivery server. This might be a feature in the GT server already, I don't know I have an LT server.


Quote:
5-Alternate use -DigiDelivery would make a great temporary backup storage device. Please give it the smarts to track a session and back up at predetermined thresholds like Mezzo is supposed to. Then if sessions could be archived to multiple DVDs, life would be perfect.
Yes, but you are extending the usefulness of the server past what it was designed for. But I hear what you are saying and yes, it would be great, but then the 80GB drive in LT would be too small. However, it does touch on the bigger problem of Backups for ProTools. I am seeing most projects now are 'backed up' on drives as they are too large for CD/DVD's and this is not a real 'archive backup' as we know. I spent nearly 2 hrs the other day , creating DVD Backups of 8 Jazz tracks I had mixed, the clients don't like paying for the time and I hate the extra mind numbing work that it creates, and I am too nervous too leave it with the assisitants in case it is wrong. So, lets get a good backup system in the works Digi. Perhaps a "Save as" that can backup (and verify) to DVD media (The hooks exist within OS X and I am sure within XP), Feeding the disks would be less of a problem. I would even buy an LE system if all it did was this!


Quote:
Since Digidelivery doesn't allow you to mix, edit, compose, or convert audio but just sends and receives files in a simple and elegant manner, Digidesign just got this box 99% right. There really is very little to complain about. I know that is counter to the fun that everyone has on the DUC. Sorry, it just works. Buy one and see.
If only it would make a good Cup of tea, mind you it runs hot enough (given the fan noise) to boil water so they are almost there.

My 2c

Simon L.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2005, 05:52 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first time!

Quote:
Quote:
5-Alternate use -DigiDelivery would make a great temporary backup storage device. Please give it the smarts to track a session and back up at predetermined thresholds like Mezzo is supposed to. Then if sessions could be archived to multiple DVDs, life would be perfect.
Yes, but you are extending the usefulness of the server past what it was designed for. But I hear what you are saying and yes, it would be great, but then the 80GB drive in LT would be too small. However, it does touch on the bigger problem of Backups for ProTools. I am seeing most projects now are 'backed up' on drives as they are too large for CD/DVD's and this is not a real 'archive backup' as we know. I spent nearly 2 hrs the other day , creating DVD Backups of 8 Jazz tracks I had mixed, the clients don't like paying for the time and I hate the extra mind numbing work that it creates, and I am too nervous too leave it with the assisitants in case it is wrong. So, lets get a good backup system in the works Digi. Perhaps a "Save as" that can backup (and verify) to DVD media (The hooks exist within OS X and I am sure within XP), Feeding the disks would be less of a problem. I would even buy an LE system if all it did was this!
We are definitely beyond the scope of what DigiDelivery was designed to do here. However, I feel compelled to chime in.

I do not want Digidesign to add archive features to Pro Tools. Everyone uses different methods for archiving; Mezzo, Retrospect, Toast, etc. Two out of the three in that list are sufficient.

So, knowing that, and taking in what Pirate Post and sleadley want to see, I propose this. The next hardware version of DigiDelivery acts as a backup server in addition to what it can currently do. It has a fibre channel card, and can connect to fibre channel disk arrays, such as the XRaid. This proposed DigiDelivery box can be seen in the Network pane of OS X v10.3.4 or later (hint, don't leave MIX users out to dry) and when finished with your session, you can execute a Save Session Copy In command and choose to save to the disk array connected to the proposed DigiDelivery box. The RAID connected to the DigiDelivery box would have to be the redundant type, so that if one disk failed in the RAID, your data would still be intact. When you need to restore your archive, you simply navigate the RAID connected to the proposed DigiDelivery box, and copy the files to your local disks.

I am not proposing something that replaces (or in the case of OS X makes up for the absence of) Avid's Unity. I am not interested in sharing all of my sessions from one location and then archiving them.

Pirate Post and sleadley, what do you think of this?

Now, before Digidesign gets carried away, I'd like to say that the wish list, IMO, is more important than this pipe dream we are having here. Please address the wish list first. Thanks for reading!
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2005, 07:05 PM
sleadley sleadley is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first time!

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I do not want Digidesign to add archive features to Pro Tools. Everyone uses different methods for archiving; Mezzo, Retrospect, Toast, etc. Two out of the three in that list are sufficient.
Hmmm! The reason that people use these is that there is not an good alternative. Mezzo was a real 'Archiver' not merely a backup solution but for various reasons fell out of favour. Retrospect is a 'Backup' Program so you have to be sure that what you are backing up is all you need. I suggest that the best place to create a good archive is from within the host app. It knows what files it needs to work and where they are. I am reminded that I was called to a friends place the other day to help when his son, who is a student at an audio school, opened a DVD of his session and it did not contain any audio files. My first question was "did you create this session from a template" his answer was yes. So his files were most likely in the audio files folder of the same directory as the template, not where he thought they should be, in his session folder. True, he should have been ssupicious when it took 30 sec to burn his DVD, but then he is a novice, and not everyone is an expert. Now, many users get caught with this. A session can often be incomplete without anyone knowing any better, then it gets erased of the original drive and you are presented with the dreaded 'some files are missing' dialog when you restore from the backup that was incomplete. Now it seems to me that a more integrated system with Pro Tools would do away with the need for the ad hoc approach that is currently used.(part of the solution would be to archive to Disk/Server/CD and DVD). This then does not require users to have Digidelivery (necessary as it might be) and will negate the problems of missing files and fulfil the porpose of a true achiving system.
So I am sorry to disagree with you on this point but the current solutions are not sufficient IMHO

Regards
Simon L.
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2005, 08:01 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first tim

I think we have different definitions of backup. I view a backup as a second copy in existence. An archive is the only copy in existence.

As for archiving what you need, or not archiving what you don't need, there is the Remove Unused Regions command (Shift+Apple+U) followed by the Clear Selected command (Shift+Apple+B).

If you know you need to archive everything, just do a Save Session Copy In command and go from there.

Having said that, I respect your viewpoint and will agree to disagree.

Cheers!
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2005, 08:14 PM
Pirate Post Pirate Post is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first tim

What I was thinking...

Since you can just grab a Pro Tools session document, drop it into Digidelivery and it finds all of the linked files, how hard would it be to periodically look to see if more files were added/changed? I think what I am looking for is an easy way to mirror my current project, a safety net, not so much a permanent backup or archive.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2005, 08:44 PM
sleadley sleadley is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first tim

An archive is a different concept to a backup, but not what you describe. An archivist is a person that collects all the materials and creates an Archive, you are therfore assured that you have all the materials that you need for a later date. A backup is just that, a duplicate of some files (perhaps not all the ones that you need to make the session work). You can have multiple archivesso that the name does not assume it is the single copy in existance, but more that some sort of intelligent process was employed to create the archive, unlike a backup that is just a mechanical process. There is no assurance (except if the operator of the backup software knows what she/he is doing). Sure you can do what you suggest from within Pto Tools, but it is timeconsuming and when you need to burn to DVD you have to manually split (or use a backup program to do this for you) the files on to separate DVD's if the data is larger than can fit on 1 DVD. What I am proposing is the ability for Pro Tools to create the Archive and back it up to some sort of media, thus becoming a one step process devoid of user error. You can happily give the task to a less experienced person and know that at worst there is more data than you need not less.

with greatest respect,

Simon L.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2005, 09:04 AM
jjhuntfox jjhuntfox is offline
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Default Re: Digidelivery..........Used it today, first time!

I wasn't trying to start a fight or be a jerk. I just read those first few posts and they sounded like the marketing department had written them. I understand that ya'll feel that way about it and I would never want to give someone a hard time for expressing their opinion. Ultimately I'm just another idiot posting on the internet anyway.

I'm glad DD is a good product and you all like it.

So I'll wave the olive branch and sod off to bed!

Thanks for the replys.

John

PS Simon, you look right dead sexy! I'd love to drool on your gear.

Just kidding, ok?
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