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  #11  
Old 02-03-2015, 05:49 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by noiseboyuk View Post
Well, they could always look at their own Ideascale if they're stuck for, well, ideas.

Incidentally, there's a bizarre belief that the only customers that Avid listen to are Post Production ones. Well, they don't listen to them either. Post customers have been asking for a very simple thing - folders in the clip bin to organise better - for over a decade, and yet nothing. Media management in general is very poor.

I could give you 100 things I'd like to see in PT12...
I'm not a post guy so I don't know, but, for the sake of this discussion let's assume "folders in the clip bin" is something really important to post guys.

But I think even the most ardent supporters of "folders in the clip bin" would agree that it has a zero "wow factor"...it might be something quite useful, but it's not something a company would splash all over their advertising.

Unfortunately, under the "version" model, every new feature must be "marching band and float" worthy. But, by adding "folders in the clip bin", a company is admitting that their software was previously somehow lacking, and they wouldn't want to throw a downer over their "bright and shiny" new release.

By moving to a "service plan with incremental improvement" model, especially if it's accompanied by a move to "versionless" software, the need for every new feature to be totally "wowie zowie" is eliminated. Without the need for a feature to be a sales "driver", about the only people who would even know about it would be current users, industry press, and people reading "spec sheets" prior to making a purchase. It certainly wouldn't be "On The Cover Of Rolling Stone".

And, by removing the need for the engineering department to feed into and support the marketing department, it becomes possible for the engineering department to be more responsive to users, and to their ideas.

So, the changes Avid is making in their various "models" may well be of far more benefit to users than they imagine...
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Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2015, 05:58 AM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by Bill Denton View Post
So, the changes Avid is making in their various "models" may well be of far more benefit to users than they imagine...

Assuming the best....

But if you look at ideascale it's easy to use real data and say maybe just maybe we should assume the worst. At least that way there is no disappointment, you knew exactly what you were going to get



And for music, folders would rock, have you ever been arranging and been chopping up midi regions? All those minor variations for drum beats are different clips,

It gets really deep when you add keys and bass (as midi)

Folders and organization wins out every time, and after all if the users say they want it, that should be wow enough.....this is after all who they are trying to cater to.......
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2015, 10:22 AM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by Bill Denton View Post
...by removing the need for the engineering department to feed into and support the marketing department, it becomes possible for the engineering department to be more responsive to users, and to their ideas.

So, the changes Avid is making in their various "models" may well be of far more benefit to users than they imagine...
It's too bad that you weren't the one explaining Pro Tools 12!

The problem Pro Tools has always had is that it is engineering software/hardware being marketed as a consumer product behind some pipe dream fantasy that it could one day take over the consumer music software market from Steinberg behind the prestige of its pro music users.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2015, 12:28 PM
bashville bashville is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by Bill Denton View Post

And, by removing the need for the engineering department to feed into and support the marketing department, it becomes possible for the engineering department to be more responsive to users, and to their ideas.

So, the changes Avid is making in their various "models" may well be of far more benefit to users than they imagine...
Yes to this ↑ ↑ ↑ --

I've also wondered, in spite of my initial "whatever" reaction to the new cloud features, that down the road I'll wonder how I could have lived without them. I already have a client with his own system; and depending on our schedules or commute plans (he lives a 2-hour train ride away from me), we sometimes work in my room, and sometimes in his. So we're constantly drop-boxing complete sessions to each other, we have a certain set of plug-ins that we limit ourselves to, etc., so that both our setups can open all the sessions. So the new features could really hold promise for us, once we delve into them.
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2015, 03:16 PM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
It's too bad that you weren't the one explaining Pro Tools 12!
We, and Avid, really are in big trouble if Bill is considered prime Avid marketing material.

To be fair though, Bill and yourself Bob ARE the two biggest Avid fanboys on the DUC these days. When even the DUC mods are expressing concern, at least the two of you can be relied upon to put a positive spin on the subject.

If you guys aren't on Avid's payroll, well you should be, because you say more in their defence than anyone else I can think of. Even the Avid Marketing chief (Tony Cariddi) has decided to keep his head down, and yet here you are, day after day, preaching the 'jam tomorrow' mantra.

As much as I am incredulous, I can't help but respect your loyalty.
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2015, 03:21 PM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by bashville View Post
Yes to this ↑ ↑ ↑ --

I've also wondered, in spite of my initial "whatever" reaction to the new cloud features, that down the road I'll wonder how I could have lived without them. I already have a client with his own system; and depending on our schedules or commute plans (he lives a 2-hour train ride away from me), we sometimes work in my room, and sometimes in his. So we're constantly drop-boxing complete sessions to each other, we have a certain set of plug-ins that we limit ourselves to, etc., so that both our setups can open all the sessions. So the new features could really hold promise for us, once we delve into them.
Aaah, ok, so 'Avid-box' is going to be much better than dropbox, I get the concept. But ....

Have you any idea what the cost per mb/gb is going to be?

Do you imagine all that data transfer and storage is going to be free with the price of a $199 per annum support plan?

The two hour train ride and price of the ticket may be cheaper! There has been no information forthcoming on these costs yet. Be careful what you wish for.
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2015, 04:45 PM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

When one has sketchy information, one can put a positive or a negative spin on anything. I choose positive because the folks at Avid have not yet proven to me that they are complete idiots. I think their new development model is the smartest thing they've done in years. I also couldn't be more skeptical of the marketplace concept but if it buys us track freeze, that's a great thing and nothing is lost should "collaboration" bomb out otherwise.

I'm one of very few people who has worked in both the worlds of motion picture post and major label music. I also have friends in broadcast. I'm very aware of what goes on in those worlds, the economics and the role Avid plays even though these days I've returned to earning my living from mastering because I like having a life.

As for "AvidBox," Micro$oft is selling unlimited cloud storage as part of a $90 a year Office subscription so I wouldn't be surprised if Avid doesn't do the same as part of their support plans and subscriptions. If not, a whole lot of folks in our field are likely to be subscribing to M$Office!
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2015, 06:00 PM
lexaudio lexaudio is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
When one has sketchy information, one can put a positive or a negative spin on anything. I choose positive because the folks at Avid have not yet proven to me that they are complete idiots. I think their new development model is the smartest thing they've done in years. I also couldn't be more skeptical of the marketplace concept but if it buys us track freeze, that's a great thing and nothing is lost should "collaboration" bomb out otherwise.

I'm one of very few people who has worked in both the worlds of motion picture post and major label music. I also have friends in broadcast. I'm very aware of what goes on in those worlds, the economics and the role Avid plays even though these days I've returned to earning my living from mastering because I like having a life.

As for "AvidBox," Micro$oft is selling unlimited cloud storage as part of a $90 a year Office subscription so I wouldn't be surprised if Avid doesn't do the same as part of their support plans and subscriptions. If not, a whole lot of folks in our field are likely to be subscribing to M$Office!
In both post and music. I understand the development model is "great" but having a buy or die policy is idiotic.

I don't really see AVID offering "unlimited" storage in anyway shape or form. It will definitely be a stepped system of payments, which of course will be monthly, and should you stop paying they will probably delete your material.

MS unlimited is for regular people uploading 2 meg docs, and photos. They probably aren;t even ticking 5-6 gigs.
They aren't uploading a 100 gigs worth of audio.

In the Post Majors, the cloud will not be allowed. Maybe independents, but not the big studios.
That's a major no no. I expect the same for music as well.
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2015, 07:07 PM
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YYR123 YYR123 is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by nigelpry View Post
To be fair though, Bill and yourself Bob ARE the two biggest Avid fanboys on the DUC these days..

I hate this term more than anything

If someone doesn't agree with my POV or I disagree with theirs I am all of a Sudden a fanboi

That's such a cop-out....just accept that people choose to see things differently, it's what makes us unique.


As far as avid goes you could have Bob Marley up in here and it wouldn't do anything to lighten the mood....
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  #20  
Old 02-03-2015, 09:28 PM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Certainly not the first to say this, but...

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Originally Posted by lexaudio View Post
In the Post Majors, the cloud will not be allowed. Maybe independents, but not the big studios.
That's a major no no.
Actually big studios have been using the Avid cloud for years because shooting goes on worldwide. It's nothing new other than Avid has renamed it and say they are about to make it available for audio.
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