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  #1  
Old 02-23-2002, 09:04 AM
Jepse Jepse is offline
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Default acoustic guitar recording question

I've read some of the previous posts and realize there are lots of options but would like some help. I have a TLM 103 (just purchased) and AT 4033 and have always just used one mic and have liked the results. However if I could use these two to create a richer sound I'd like to know how. The neuman is so hot compared to the 4033 that my attempts so far make me want to stay with one mic only. For recording environments I have the options of a dead room and a fairly ambient room (wood floors and vaulted ceiling). Also, I just purchased the RNC compressor and wondered if anyone finds using this improves their recording. My attempts so far have been better without the compressor.



Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 02-23-2002, 09:45 AM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
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Default Re: acoustic guitar recording question

I don't have the 4033, but do have the 103 and the RNC. Normally, I don't use the 103 for acoustic guitar unless I want a pretty jangly sound. I'll use my 414 or an A/T 4041 (small diaghram) instead. However, I do end up using the RNC a lot on acoustic guitar. I use the supernice mode to keep things smooth. If you over-compress (6db or more), it starts to sound a bit...uh...compressed, but keeping it moderate just to level things out a bit (3-4db compression), seems to work just fine for me.

The 103 could be used on ac gtr but if you want a warmer sound, you'll probably end up rolling off some highs. Mic position is also critical - an inch one way or the other can make a pretty big difference.

Hope that helps.
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Old 02-23-2002, 09:52 AM
Kling3 Kling3 is offline
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Default Re: acoustic guitar recording question

So many variables, so liitle time. All I do is acoustic music so I've spent endless hours experimenting. How is your acoustic presented? With other rythmn tracks i.e. bass, drums, keyboards, other electric guitars? Or just acoustic solo or two? If you have it sitting in tracks with other stuff, best to use one mic to keep lots of frq's from getting in the way (James Taylor uses a small body acoustic just for this reason) If your going solo you could use two and balance the lower bout and uppper bout of the guitar for a fuller sound. I like to keep the room fairly dead and add my reverb algor's to my liking. If I'm using reverb I use one mic primarily pointed on a slight angle about where the neck meets the body around 8" away. This changes slightly depending on the guitar as I have several, for different things. There is a good article in Acoustic Guitar mag this month (I think) about the subject. Its pretty detailed. I have both mics your using and use both seperately depending on the guitar. I also use a 149, U87, and now the cheaper At-3035 for banjo (less high end info being printed). I like the large diaphrams as they print more frq's so I have more to shape rather than having less to work with. I always tend to cut a few db around 200hz to take the mud out. Sometimes I play with the upper end, again depends. If you add reverb it throws a whole wrench in the works sonically which is why I tend to use one mic (less is more) and use the reverb for spread and eq. flavor. Lots to add here. Acoustic is tough but the more you experiment the more you have to draw from so dig in.
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Old 02-23-2002, 11:14 AM
MPB MPB is offline
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Default Re: acoustic guitar recording question

I've used 2 103's to record classical and steel string gtrs. and have had pretty good luck with them having them point towards the bridge and 12th fret about 45 degrees off axis angled from above.I compress after recording for steel string using McDsp compressor bank if necessary to
smooth out dynamics or to level the initial attack but usually let the classical alone. http://stbmusicpublishing.com/audio.htm has recordings of classical using this method.
Marty
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Old 02-23-2002, 01:22 PM
Jepse Jepse is offline
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Default Re: acoustic guitar recording question

Kling 3 -- my acoustic guitar is mixed with piano, drums vocals etc. but at times there is just the guitar and vocal. I've been experimenting with both mics in three different rooms today and am getting pretty good results with close and distant miking technique using a stereo audio track. Thanks IWilliam about the compressor feedback. I wondered what input gain level you set your output at when you use your RNC? I don't have a mixer so mine has to come out of the 001.

Thanks, Jepse
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2002, 08:52 AM
Jason from MaggieJack Jason from MaggieJack is offline
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Default Re: acoustic guitar recording question

I use two at4041s on a mic clip thing that holds to mics about 8" apart from each other, I think it is made by on stage stands. Anyway with that I have the mics heads about 2 or 3" apart and the mics are at a 90 degree angle to each other. With both mics on one stand it's easy to move them around and look for the sweet spot, especialy if you are doing it yourself. Usually I am about 1 to 1-1/2 feet away from the guitar either above or below the sound hole, I point the mics usually right above or right below the guitar. I've found when I point them at the guitar I get a lot off bass (proximity effect I believe). Try to coming down or up on the guitar too with the mics above or below the body. Also one of the biggest improvements in the sound was using the limiters in the presonus digimax to take care of the transients, by getting a much hotter signal to the convertors it made a really big difference.

Hope this helps.

Jason
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2002, 10:19 AM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
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Default Re: acoustic guitar recording question

"I wondered what input gain level you set your output at when you use your RNC?"

I only use my mixer output to feed PTLE when recording synth/sampler tracks. My 001 signal chain is almost always 1. mic pre; 2. RNC; 3. RME set to -10; 4. RME lightpipe to 001.

I believe the 001 inputs 3-8 are also -10, so the setting should be similar. Usually I have the input gain (threshhold) set to the 9-10 o'clock position and the output either at unity (12 o'clock) or maybe at 1 o'clock. The main thing is not to over-compress. If you set the peaks at 6db compression and the general compression level is averaging much less than that, it will be transparent.

It also depends a lot on what all the other levels are: instrument volume level (fingerpicked or flatpicked); how close the mic is to the guitar; mic sensitivity level; preamp output level, etc. so use my settings with a grain of salt.

The ears are the best judge - if it sounds good, it IS.

YMMV... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2002, 04:21 PM
Jepse Jepse is offline
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Default Re: acoustic guitar recording question

Thanks for the tips IWilliam. I had the digi outputs at +4 as it usually has my keyboard in that particular jack. Thanks for the settings suggestions as well. Much appreciated!

Jepse
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