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  #21  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:28 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Guys tell me why are you so concerned about boot time? It's not like you need to shutdown every time you need to close your laptop lid... I mean, boot time tells absolutely nothing about storage speed. It only tells you how fast or slow your boot sequence is finishing.
Also tells you how fast your system drive is. I don't run a laptop and I don't leave my computer on 24/7 either. Combine that for when PT goes whackadoodle and you have to reboot you want a fast system drive.
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Also tells you how fast your system drive is. I don't run a laptop and I don't leave my computer on 24/7 either. Combine that for when PT goes whackadoodle and you have to reboot you want a fast system drive.
No it does not. It only tells how fast your hardware is interfacing with BIOS/EFI to get system loading.

To make my point, it can take 1sec on BIOS and 1min on system disk, or 30sec on BIOS and 1sec on system disk. Which system drive is faster as per boot time?
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  #23  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:47 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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No it does not. It only tells how fast your hardware is interfacing with BIOS/EFI to get system loading.

To make my point, it can take 1sec on BIOS and 1min on system disk, or 30sec on BIOS and 1sec on system disk. Which system drive is faster as per boot time?
I'm just saying what I had happen here. When I got this Mac Pro it had a 7200 rpm spinner for system drive. Swapped that out for an ssd in a drive bay. Boot times went down considerably. Same efi setup. A lot of it is in how fast a drive can spit out data. Then I put that ssd on a pcie card and boot times went down again. The only limit is in how fast the computer buss can run.
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  #24  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:55 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Guys tell me why are you so concerned about boot time? It's not like you need to shutdown every time you need to close your laptop lid... I mean, boot time tells absolutely nothing about storage speed. It only tells you how fast or slow your boot sequence is finishing.
I never claimed that boot time tells something about storage speed. Actually a simple 2.5 SSD sitting in one of the SATA drive bays in a classic Mac Pro (4,1 / 5,1) gives you full boot speed, it will not go any faster than that, not even with a very fast NVMe M.2 SSD sitting on a PCIe card, been there done that.
Data reads writes are a different story but we are not talking about that.

I must confess that I no longer use AHCI SSDs which perform better in a classic Mac Pro but there are no decent sizes available at decent prices, thus NVMe it is.

So, to go back to what I actually complained about is that all my Macs (also the iMacs) boot much slower when the startup drive is APFS formatted, and I do not mean just a few seconds longer but it sometimes takes minutes, up to 5!!

Maybe APFS is developed for and designed for the all new and current Macs in mind. I will not own any of those until Apple comes up with reasonable pricing again.
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  #25  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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I do not mean just a few seconds longer but it sometimes takes minutes, up to 5!!
That doesn't sound right. Can anyone with classsic cheesegrater and APFS chime in please?
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:25 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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I never claimed that boot time tells something about storage speed. Actually a simple 2.5 SSD sitting in one of the SATA drive bays in a classic Mac Pro (4,1 / 5,1) gives you full boot speed, it will not go any faster than that, not even with a very fast NVMe M.2 SSD sitting on a PCIe card, been there done that.
Data reads writes are a different story but we are not talking about that.

I must confess that I no longer use AHCI SSDs which perform better in a classic Mac Pro but there are no decent sizes available at decent prices, thus NVMe it is.

So, to go back to what I actually complained about is that all my Macs (also the iMacs) boot much slower when the startup drive is APFS formatted, and I do not mean just a few seconds longer but it sometimes takes minutes, up to 5!!

Maybe APFS is developed for and designed for the all new and current Macs in mind. I will not own any of those until Apple comes up with reasonable pricing again.
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That doesn't sound right. Can anyone with classsic cheesegrater and APFS chime in please?
Oliver has other problems going on if he's seeing 5 minute boot times with an APFS formatted drive in a 5,1 cheesegrater whether it's in a drive bay or on a pcie adapter card. With the system that's in my profile I'm seeing at most a 45 second time to a usable desktop from pushing the power button and 15 seconds from the startup pong. That's on a cold start; a warm reboot is faster than that. Garden variety Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB ssd on a pcie adapter card from OWC. Formatted APFS. I have no doubt if I had an nvme system drive it'd be even faster than that.


An ssd in a drive bay will NOT give you the fastest boot speed possible. It's barely running half the speed than if it were on an adapter card in a pcie slot. I wish Darryll Ramm would chime in here. But it's no use arguing with Oliver - been down that road before and it always ends up badly.
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  #27  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:17 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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But it's no use arguing with Oliver - been down that road before and it always ends up badly.
Why are you posting such bad comments?
Only because we disagreed in the past?

You show no respect sir.

Other than this I have investigated all this. I always do before I post on certain subjects, you know. It seems to me that everytime I post something you jump on it and attack me. What triggers this?

I was actually going to share more info about this very subject as I tried some 10-20 AHCI and NVMe drives, half a dozen of PCIe cards to host them and all combinations of them.
But since you are the expert, I leave it up to you to solve my problem. 😉
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  #28  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:23 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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An ssd in a drive bay will NOT give you the fastest boot speed possible.
You obviously never measured it.
A simple SSD in any of the drive bays boots up as fast as the fastest PCIe SSD on an AMFELTEC SQUID Gen2 (S KU-086-01) PCIe Carrier Board (x16/F), I am using one of those with 4 M.2 SSDs.
Been there, done this.
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  #29  
Old 01-24-2020, 08:18 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

There are many threads all over the Web about slow boot issues with APFS, and how to address that, including fixes from Apple in later Mojave versions.

What is going on during all this time? What do logs show? What known fixes have you tried?

Slow initialization/POST is a separate issue, presumably you know this is really an APFS issue.
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  #30  
Old 01-25-2020, 03:16 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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That doesn't sound right. Can anyone with classsic cheesegrater and APFS chime in please?
Hi,

my system drive is an SSD and my audio/video drives are encrypted APFS spinner drives. (more unintentionally as I didn't pay attention when re-formatting them freshly and just focused on the encryption). I have found no difference in my rig's behaviour whatsoever. Been running massive film post projects on it. Usually maxed out voice count and ten thousands of clips on board.

Frank.
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