Future of icon?

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

No I hope it's a new system 5 MC with the best of the icon in it.

Actually I don't hope so. Even if the 5 mc is good, I always hated how it feels and looks. Just doesn't seem as rugged as an Icon quality build I mean. Now if it was a new console with the quality build of an Icon (and looks) and functionalities of the 5mc combined with the perfect integration of the ICON in pro tools, then yes that would be awesome.. If it's a plasticky looking thing like the current 5mc and fusion 5.. then bleh. Any how that's my taste may not be your's

[Branko]

I'm trying to understand what is it about functionality that makes Euphonix so superior to D-Control?
I have quite an experience on both consoles, and definitely prefer the Icon. When I mix on Euphonix, I often find myself grabbing the mouse or typing something on the keyboard. Just a simple trim automation operation (simple on Icon, as there's a "trim" button next to each fader!) requires several clicks and moves...
If you're mixing in the box, and using ProTools for that, I don't understand what's missing on Icon to accomplish any task imaginable?
I'm afraid Avid will take a wrong decision and push S5 forward.

[JanuS]

Originally Posted by Brandonx1

No I hope it's a new system 5 MC with the best of the icon in it.

I can imagine as well... I have Icon experience, but no MC 5 experience. What I like about the MC 5 are the way you can see the channel information; level, EQ and dynamics. Also the depth of the faderboard is better (smaller). On an Icon the pot meters (mushrooms) are too far away. Fortunately I've got long arms...

But the Protools integration of the Icon is the best there is. Yeah, maybe a MC 5 looking Icon indeed...

Personally, I'm fine with mixing and mastering (film) "in the box", without external summing of some sort. Especially with 64 bit around the corner. So the dual layer thinking of the System 5 is for me not necessary.. How about you guys (System 5 users?)

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by Branko

I'm trying to understand what is it about functionality that makes Euphonix so superior to D-Control?

I'm afraid Avid will take a wrong decision and push S5 forward.

The obvious thing is the ability to control other DAWs

We routinely switch between Pyramix and Protools in our room and with the system 5 we can do that.

If icon was given eucon functionality, that would be a different matter.
Also the MC Pro is IMO without equal for editing

[Brandonx1]

How about the accustics of the system 5. Chann meters on the faders and not sticking up where speakers should be! How about the swap layer. Trim mode is very easy with a Eucon device. I have a macro that does that just a little slower then the icon. Avid needs to add that button to the new system 5. All and all the customizable nature of the Eucon is very attractive to me and the ergonomics/layout of the system 5 mc is seems better to me. I know I don't like a d-control! Wow I can. Never stay in the sweet spot with hat controller. I'm always rolling all over the control room reaching for something.

[Branko]

How about custom faders? How about access to EQ without paging? Or access to compressor without paging? And a 6-character scribble strip, instead of four? Also, I don't look that much at my faders, most of the time I watch the picture on screen in front of me. And if I look at the faders, I can see the automation state of each of them...
To be clear, I'm only using Pro Tools in my studio. No Nuendos or Pyramixes.
I also didn't understand the part about the "accustics of the System 5".

[Branko]

Here's a problem I'm dealing with every day: I'm mixing a 200+ channels feature. Everything is in Pro Tools - one HDX for Dia, Foley and Music, other HDX for BGs and FX.
I have 10 different layouts (so far, may be more as I move on) I'm working on Foley layout, all channels are in Touch/Latch mode. Suddenly, I feel I'd like to trim one line in the Dialog.
What's the fastest way of doing it?

[Stig Eliassen]

Originally Posted by Branko

Here's a problem I'm dealing with every day: I'm mixing a 200+ channels feature. Everything is in Pro Tools - one HDX for Dia, Foley and Music, other HDX for BGs and FX.
I have 10 different layouts (so far, may be more as I move on) I'm working on Foley layout, all channels are in Touch/Latch mode. Suddenly, I feel I'd like to trim one line in the Dialog.
What's the fastest way of doing it?

You're obviously in another league than myself, but there's a couple ways I like to do it.

a) If I want to trim a longer section, I press Trim on the channel (coalesce after every pass) > make the selection > trim the fader and keep holding it > press play and hit Write to all > press stop

b) For shorter sections I just enter touch/latch/trim, and trim during playback.

[thierryd]

Originally Posted by Branko

I'm trying to understand what is it about functionality that makes Euphonix so superior to D-Control?

I work daily on 32ch D-Control (all faders left as yours) and until a few years ago I sometimes worked on a Euphonix System 5 or Neve DFC.
I have always thought from day one that the D-Control was built by an ego that tried to imitate the footprint of an SSL to impress clients. It is just built too big and if you're critical not very well laid out. Think of:
- no easy access to automation states (preview etc), only via 3-finger/2 hands combination, or too far away soft keys.
- soft keys are a great idea, but are too far away when you're mixing
- the center section is too spread out
- the channel strips are too long with mushroom knobs with too much distance between them. DFC and first series System 5 had the best lay-out for knobs, with the led range built-in on top of the knob. With the mushroom from D-Control you can't see part of the range. Also System 5 has 8 knobs on a smaller footprint than the 6 knobs on the D-Control (where the most upper knob is too far to be comfortable).
- the screens in front of the channel strips on System 5 were always a great idea. Think of what PT integration you could do with that on a new sort of D-Control (Plugin view per channels trip, track view, meters with phase info,...)

That said until now the D-Control has been the best integrated controller with PT. Even with the current Eucon, no controller gives that sort of integration (and has great ideas such as Custom Faders etc.) so that's why I ultimately invested in a D-Control.

But if Avid would invite me to their offices, I could draw a better controller than D-Control in no time. Think of a combination of D-Control, System 5 and multi-touch screens and you already have some distance covered.

Still I hope Avid will invest some more time in making the current D-Control better, but I don't hold my breath. Lots of good suggestions were given in one of the threads here (now a long time ago).

Greetings,

Thierry

[thierryd]

Originally Posted by Branko

Here's a problem I'm dealing with every day: I'm mixing a 200+ channels feature. Everything is in Pro Tools - one HDX for Dia, Foley and Music, other HDX for BGs and FX.
I have 10 different layouts (so far, may be more as I move on) I'm working on Foley layout, all channels are in Touch/Latch mode. Suddenly, I feel I'd like to trim one line in the Dialog.
What's the fastest way of doing it?

In my setup I always have 8 VCAs on the left hand side (DIA, PFX, MUS, FOL, SFX, AMB, FXreturns, with more sub VCAs if needed). The next 24 faders are my VCA spills or mem loc lay-out work tracks.
So in that scenario, when I work on whatever layer, I can always quickly trim something from another layer with the VCA.
That is as long as it is on the same PT system.
My problem in your scenario (I use a HD TDM and HD native in multimode) is when I would like to trim something on the other PT system, for example trim the AMB while mixing the foley in your setup (I divide my mix session mostly as DIA, PFX and MUS on one system, FOL, SFX, AMB on the other).
One always has to leave the current layer to switch PT systems in multimode.
For this I've experimented with dividing the 2 16 fader sections to 2 PT systems, but this has all sorts of other problems, one of them that I was constantly pushing the wrong modifier keys

The only solution for this is having everything on one PT system, my ultimate dream -> PT11 64bit handling 512 tracks HDX2 + great quality video from one computer, without memory problems. HDX3 768 tracks with video would be a bonus, but needs a new Mac Pro with 4 PCIe slots. Everything in one system would give great mixing, editing and conforming advantages...

Greetings,

Thierry