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  #1  
Old 10-15-2003, 11:26 AM
Stage Stage is offline
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Default Need help on passive monitor setup...

I have just picked up a set of NS-10's and a Hafler P-1500. This is my first set of passive monitors and i'm not sure of the best way to get most out my setup.

3 questions...

1. How do I know how high to crank up the Hafler? I don't have the budget to keep blowing woofers but I also have heard that running them with a fuse will affect the sound.

2. What kind of speaker wire should I be using?

3. Is there any difference in sound (aside from the volume) from the output of the 002's main and monitor outs? I plan on running my second set of monitors (actives) out of the main outs as another reference for my mixes.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give..

petr
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  #2  
Old 10-15-2003, 11:40 AM
brinaddison brinaddison is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

I would crank the amp up all the way and send your main outputs to a fader (mixer etc...) maybe someday somone will come out with a single high quality fader for this purpose. with just "LR in" and "LR out" on a long thro fader, but for now use something else to monitor through, console/mixer etc...

This way you're using all the amp's headroom for the dynamics. You won't blow the NS10's that easely. If you blow them you're listening way too loud. The tweeters might go first. If the woofers are moving too much, back off on the low end a little. NS10's nothing under 100hz.

As far as wire??? well there is much debate on this issue! Just use some 16guage or 14guage quality ripcord. but if you want to get fancy and depending on how far away the speakers are from the amp, get some of that braided, or make it yourself, wire. Low end tends to distort the high's over distance. so spread the load and you'll be fine.
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  #3  
Old 10-15-2003, 12:51 PM
where02190 where02190 is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

We have exactly the same setup, and in 3+ years I have never bolwn anything in the 10's.

To match the output spl with our JBL LSR 28P active midfields, I used a Radshack analog spl meter, A weighted, running pink noise @ 85db with the meter 1m from the center between each speakers woofer and tweeter. Each speaker was calibrated with the others off.

With the LSR's full up we first calibrated them so they were matched, as one was off a couple db, as to be expected. (No two speakers will be exactly the same)

Next, leaving everything set the same, we ran the noise into the Hafler and, one side at a time, increased the sensitivity of the amp clockwise until the meter read 85db. Repeat for the opposite side.

Bottom line, the left side is two clicks up from full countercolckwise, and the right is 3. While this seems odd, the volume constols are not really volume controls, turning them all the way down does not turn the speakers off, it increases the input sensitivity. with our control volume at full clockwise, the 10's woll produce 100db a weighted of music program...more than adequate for NS-10's, which are prety useless above 90-95 db anyway. This setting also ensures we will never send too hot a signal to the speakers, the ampo is simply not capable of it at that sensitivity setting. You stilll have all the amps available dynamic range.

Calbing-go to your local Home Depot or electrical supply house and get a length of 12 guage copper zip cord. Unless your locating your amp more than 15-20 feet from the speakers, this sill be more than adequate. make both lengths equal, even it that means exta length on one side to minimize any variations in resistance.
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Old 10-15-2003, 12:55 PM
Stage Stage is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

thanks for the response..

will i see a decrease in sound quality if I use the monitor output on the 002? are there any other dangers associated with this? I don't really want to buy a mixer just adjust the volume of my monitors..
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  #5  
Old 10-15-2003, 01:09 PM
brinaddison brinaddison is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

Actually yeah you can, that way you'll just have to reach over and turn the knob to the level you want. The reason I use a fader is 'cause I have a bunch of other things going through my monitors, FCP firewire and the mac built in output etc...

I find the best sound from the monitor level is at about 4 o'clock. Using a master fader in PT will be a pain in the a**, you'll want to leave that at unity, and as a matter of fact, I'm finding that using a master fader in PT affects the sound a little, so I'm starting to not use one at all, just let the individual tracks feed the 1&2 outputs.

If I have to master something or put compression or L1 or whatever, I'll just re-import the bounced audio into a new session, freeing up the CPU and then put my effects on that stereo channel. this method also prevents mix buss overs.

Try.
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  #6  
Old 10-15-2003, 01:17 PM
Stage Stage is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

where02190.. i was writing my last post when you replied.. thanks for the info.. i actually picked up the hafler after seeing that you and a few others used it.. on my way to home depot now..

brin.. thanks again..

I'm going to calibrate the monitors as per where's instructions and use the monitor outs of the 002.. this way when it's cranked i'm not gonna blow up my [bleep]...

now that thats done.. anyone build their own speaker stands?
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  #7  
Old 10-15-2003, 06:40 PM
where02190 where02190 is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

we had out stnads for the JBLs built for us as per my design. They are 1/4" diamondplate, with 1" tubular steel support. everything is triple rhinoliner covered, and the support is extrafine grade sand packed and foam insulate sealed. The JBL's sit on a 1/4" thick rubber mat, with granite cornerstones between the speakers and mat.

the NS-10's sit on the same style cornerstones and rubbermat. Great isolation, low profile.

Using the monitor outs as they are designed, for control room monitors.

If you use a master fader, beware, inserts are POST FADER!!! (Probably why the previous poster noticed a diff when lowering it.) I fyou must use mix buss compression, kep the master fader at 0, and run your channel faders in the -10 range to prevent overloading the mix buss.
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  #8  
Old 10-15-2003, 07:17 PM
brinaddison brinaddison is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

Well no, I wasn't lowering the master fader. I don't touch it, that's my point, and there were no inserts on it either, but if you listen very carefully you'll notice a slight drop in dynamics and punch when you add a master fader. Just because they make one, doesn't mean it sounds better. Try putting one on at unity and listen..........now delete it. and listen again. You need to put on your mastering ears for this test.

Well? If you don't hear it, then continue as you were, but if you do hear the difference, then leave it off altogether, sounds more open to me.

Just a suggestion each to his own.
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2003, 03:28 PM
Stage Stage is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

One more question about the pink noise..

I have a set of Event PS5's (active) with volume knobs on the front.. i figured i might as well calibrate them with my new fancy Radio Shack SPL meter..

I made a new track, put on the Signal Generator (pink) and got each one to read 85db. Everything fine so far.. but when i open an old session the meter reads 90 and up.. Am i missing something? Both session have master faders at 0...

thanks,
petr
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  #10  
Old 10-16-2003, 11:12 PM
where02190 where02190 is offline
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Default Re: Need help on passive monitor setup...

Your sessions will read above 85db depending on the mix. 85db is simply the calibration level we chose based on several factors and industry guidelines.Your ns-10's are certainly capable of more than that, however calibrating to that with noise will allow your amp to wrok efficiently without allowing excess power to the ns-10's which could damage them.

You should be able to achieve about 100db A weighted with program.
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