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  #51  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:27 PM
zion zion is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
WOW, what a *massive* performance improvement on sierra! WOW!

Over 2018.4!

WOW!

It's gone back from trailing cubase and logic in VI playback buffer performance by 30%, to eclipsing them again!

I am not moving off of 2017.7 for a long time... I wish it was the release with folder tracks, but we can't have it all can we....

I use my standardized VI Test of a 16 bar midi file looping over and over again, with the VI and midi track duplicated, to count a maximum of tracks before dropouts. It has to loop at *least* 4 times to be considered a stable result, i.e, 64 bars played.

Using my latest Patchworx and Dune 2 test, PT got 10 in 2018.4, whereas Cubase got 15 and Logic 14.

Now PT is at 16.. I mean that's a massive difference, and all cores are evenly spread out and hitting 90% real cpu each (using istat and activity monitor). The other DAW's can only get real usage to about 79 maybe 80%.. so once again pro tools wins, just like 12.8.1 did.

I am very happy with that.

Thanks Avid. :)
Yep my experience exactly! I’m staying on Sierra 10.12.6. I never had a reason to ever upgrade. All my other apps work just fine on Sierra as well. Why upgrade?
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  #52  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:31 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

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Originally Posted by toolz View Post
Really, it's a total joke. It's pretty obvious that Avid are failing to deliver bug fixes, let alone cope with evolving operating systems.

And we're funding this comedy show, AAE has serious issues, and it feels like another Band Aid, is the solution.

You don't see these kind of blunders with other DAW's that have insanely efficient CPU usage... IT'S NEVER BEEN THIS BAD, is the opinion of this 20 year PT's professional.
Sorry but I see these issues with all DAW's.
For example, Cubase does not work properly on windows systems with more than 14 logical cores (i.e 7 real + 7 hyper) without a registry hack that microsoft refuse to provide, and steinberg will on case by case scenarios. MASSIVE cpu spikes and performance issues just by the presence of all those cores..

Studio One performance on mac is an absolute *disaster*.
I did streamlined DSP tests with both VI's and native FX, and got TWICE the count on bootcamp on the same machine! (Granted that was with windows 7 and I haven't tested it for over a year).
I HAVE however tested the latest S1 on my macs and pro tools absolutely *crushes* it in performance.

Cubase has graphical issues on mac.. For example, imagine even in an empty project.. You create a new audio track, import or record a clip.. You click on it with the mouse to select it.. like any daw.. then you click somewhere in the arranger page in a blank area, to *de* select the clip.. that can take 2 seconds to register.. it's awful. Steinberg have improved it but it's still not eradicated.

And let's put some blame where it's also due.. Apple and Microsoft.. My guru that does nothing for 20 years but build, sell and benchmark windows DAWS, told me windows 10 can break everything with a forced upgrade now.. it's nothing like win 7 days... Apple routinely break things (HS 10.13.4 anyone?).

I feel so sorry for these DAW builders constantly having to keep up with the OS shenanigans of the two "big boys".. I constantly wish (and yes i know about the failed be-os) that someone like avid would partner with say waves and build their own OS to run PT perfectly, then other plugin devs would jump on board.. (just an example, but a streamlined OS for audio without any forced updates that you can use for 5 years or more without ever worrying about a new update of PT not working).

Yes, PT has some hideous bugs.. but having used every daw on the planet, i can confidently say they all do.

For me, i know that doesn't help you.. but for me, at 128 buffer, core audio.

Pro tools 2018.7 outperforms in native plug in count:

Cubase ever so slightly - maybe 5% if that.
Logic by around 10% or even 15%.
S1 by about 40%
Reaper the same as S1 (reaper is horrible on mac, i don't care what anyone says).
Ableton by 40% at least.
Bit**** the same.
DP is hit and miss, but overall it's pretty decent performer (no pun intended).

Now, at 32 and 64 buffer, PT is weaker than Cubase and Logic.. This is where Avid needs improvement. But for HDX users it shouldn't be an issue.

For HDN users, definitely an issue. THis is why i recommend HDN users use antelope to interface, so they can set their buffer in PT at 128 but still get zero latency monitoring through FX with the antelop dSP FX on their HD interface range.

For Core audio users, definitely an issue.

Windows performance at 64 buffer in PT is at least twice as good as mac on the same machine. Core loads spread evenly without crazy spiking... I even have a video of 64 tracks armed with a large amount of FX on each, in HDN on windows at 64 buffer, perfect, records for as long as needed.. same machine on mac OS, can't do anything. So yes, that is a problem. Mac has to be put to 128 to balance out the performance.

Pro Tool's performance for it's *playback* buffer, i.e, the 1024 internal buffer it places ALL tracks on that are not record armed, is outstanding. The best. It took a dip in 2018.1 and .4 but .7 has brought it right back to where it was.

So there's always a trade off.. with any DAW.. nothing is perfect..

Hey, i have done my fair share of ranting and complaining myself, so *please* don't think I am trying to diminish your real issues, but just trying to throw some balance that the grass is NOT always greener.. Trust this from someone who has used every daw on the planet in search for the best performing one.

PS, as a general rule, if you want to run at 64 buffer all day, windows with speedstep disabled is the answer, with the processors set to a permanent clock.. THIS is why mac os spikes so much at lower buffers (besides avid needing to optimise it as well, of course)..

Now, on to your problem.. I think Avid should maybe re examine their approval of the cheese greater mac pros.. cause 99% of the serious issues I see here, are with those machines and especially HDN. I am convinced it is something with the pcie bus, but who knows.
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  #53  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:37 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

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Originally Posted by zion View Post
Yep my experience exactly! I’m staying on Sierra 10.12.6. I never had a reason to ever upgrade. All my other apps work just fine on Sierra as well. Why upgrade?
You are spot on but sadly some people don't have a choice, as apple abandons OS support faster than a speeding bullet.

For example, anyone wanting to buy a *very* powerful mac, only has the choice of High Sierra..
If one has a trashcan mac pro, i would say stay on sierra till Avid literally stop making pro tools that runs on it!
Same with any imac from 2011 till now (non pro).

Macbook users last year have no option now but HS either unfortunately, including the new 6 cores.. and in 2 months, just think.. Mojave will ship, the new modular mac pro will ONLY run on mojave, and mojave is going to break *everything*. It's going to be a nightmare.
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  #54  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:40 PM
CHRIS AIKEN CHRIS AIKEN is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

Seems very good for me on 10.12.6. The cpu usage meter isn't jumping around nearly as much as is used to.

I also had an issue before once I got around 60-70% on the meter. Very often when using my Slate Raven, touching the faders would lead to an error (probably graphics related). This behavior is much better now. Generally it feels snappy and good so far!
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  #55  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:48 PM
originalscottyg originalscottyg is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

Haven't really dug in much, but seems fine so far on:

MacPro Trashcan
64GB RAM
10.12.6
HDX2/Sonnet Chassis
EuCon 18.3
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  #56  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:55 PM
toolz toolz is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

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Originally Posted by TNM View Post

Now, on to your problem.. I think Avid should maybe re examine their approval of the cheese greater mac pros.. cause 99% of the serious issues I see here, are with those machines and especially HDN. I am convinced it is something with the pcie bus, but who knows.
It's a PCIe issue for sure..

If I use built in sound, I get correct operation or as near to, did this test for Avid CS three months ago, as part of the 10 day troubleshooting. (Actually used an MBOX at 96k)

Using HDN at that time, and as you point out, you use 128 buffer at 96k to minimise latency, and make simple recording possible.

Just couldn't get to the place needed beyond 12.8.1, even though I'd switched from a 6 core to a 12 core machine.


So dumping HDN, and bought HDX2 in the hope things would improve with a DSP based engine, and can record finally, but it doesn't feel professional.

(HDN on a 12 core mac 5,1 12.8.1 outperformed HDX1 on test.. hence the second HDX card)

For 20 years I've used a qualified machine and all Digital/Avid hardware, I don't use VI's it's just recording mostly like a tape machine, so never any plugs, maybe a Dverb for verb. Doing exactly what I'm doing with my prior TDM HD rigs and Mix rig before that.. never much more that 48 tracks of music in a band situation.

This performance issue with the PCIe certainly explains why HDN PCIe got discontinued quietly, as you point out.. you can't actually record with it in practice.

On to HDX, they have no current alternative, so they can't discontinue it until a time that they do.. it's also clear that that must be taken as a huge consideration how a PCIe over thunderbolt copes with these new Mac OS, maybe it will never work correctly again...close the Edit and Mix window, and the performance is back, so clearly not enough PCIe bandwidth in the new OS?

I wish they had discontinued Cheesegreater support, one thing is clear it was never tested to the needed standard for qualification, as Avid CS proved that replicating my issues on the qualifying computer.

At least this scenario, I'd have not bought two HDX cards, could of got a newer mac and changed out my three HD IO 16x16's, for another manufacture as you pointed out.

All I'm after is a Pro Rig, currently have a huge investment, there's no money in Band recording anymore, so it feels like a factor of 10! :)))

I'm going to have a little moan! I've paid my subscription, and wasted 10 days of my life with Avid CS to get somewhere recognising the bug, and equally nowhere with a fix

The one saving factor is.. I kept my Yosemite Drive with 12.8.1, this has kept me working every day, so I'm thankful for that.

But have truly never know it this bad, ..and that's because the I don't have an easy machine to buy off the shelf, there's no Mac with a PCIe slot, and that gets back to Apples priority of a PCIe card running over thunderbolt, under the latest OS's

Change has to be around the corner? What I think is.. PT cannot progress with 'HDX deadwood' holding it back.. that is my logical conclusion.
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Last edited by toolz; 08-01-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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  #57  
Old 08-01-2018, 07:16 PM
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Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

So far so good here. OS 10.3.5. 6-core trashcan.
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  #58  
Old 08-02-2018, 06:06 AM
Ru_C Ru_C is online now
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

Just did a bit of a low-latency (32 samples) test on my (PT Vanilla) system.

I'd say its *marginally* improved from the last version, but the 'edit-page display taking up all the cpu' bug is still alive & true..

I'm attempting to record a pair of tracks on a busy session with a bunch of plugins.

With the edit-page showing, CPU use is around 85-90% and peaks every now & then over the course of a 4 min song to hit 100%

With neither the edit or mix page showing...the Pro-Tools CPU meter won't even budge past 30% even whilst tracking at 32samples latency...its much like using my TDM rig.

As soon as AVID get to the bottom of this & fix it, i'll gladly give them all my cash & get a brand spanking new HD Ultimate Native setup.

As it stands, Native for me makes a good mixing & home recording setup. With this fixed, i'd invest properly & use it in front of clients for tracking real-world sessions, but not before.
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A Rig: OSX 10.15.6, PT Ultimate2020.11.1, Native PCI-e Card, AVID I/O16 Analog i/o x2, 40 fader D-Command ES

B Rig: OSX 10.9.5, PT HD 10.3.10, HD3 Accel, AVID192D+ 2xPresonus FS8 for I/o, 32 fader Pro Control

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  #59  
Old 08-02-2018, 07:06 AM
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Keybeeetsss Keybeeetsss is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

Hey guys! LONG TIME NO SEE! & hello to some I've "Not seem before my hiatus!

Question; when dragging a wave, or creating a fade, does the wave/space sorta disappear on you all's rig? I can't see it moving, so I have to look at the timeline cursor up top to see where I'm nudging the wave to. & on creating a fade, it goes blank as well until I'm done creating it.

I'm still in W7 btw.

Otherwise, I'm all good. But that's an issue for me. I have it on my other studio rig on Mac, as well as my MacBook Pro, but hadn't did any session editing on either to see if it's doing the same...

(Hey Tom)



((Edit! Hahaha, ok, I just realized how long it's been since I've been on here after looking at my Sig!!! Haha GUY LEE��)


(((edit #2) I'm on my MacBook now, & there's no issue here, so it's definitely specific to my Windows rig it looks like)))
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Last edited by Keybeeetsss; 08-02-2018 at 07:21 AM.
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  #60  
Old 08-02-2018, 10:47 AM
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TOM@METRO TOM@METRO is offline
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Default Re: 2018.7 So Far...

Hey Key, great to hear from you, it's been a while.

Here on Windows 10 the wave in the edit window becomes transparent when moving. But totally visible.

It's not the same around here without you. Come hang a little more often.

And check out this thread from an old friend.

The Keybeeetsss legend will never die.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=399644
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