Why is changing the Playback Engine H/W Buffer Size fixing my problem?

[Cruz Azul]

Hi Guys,

I've recently updated to Studio 2023.6.0 and hunting down a few issues. Working on some very slow loading session files (and trying to figure out which plugins??).

On the way to sorting this I have a session that will load eventually (takes 5 or 6 minutes) that would now load with 100% CPU taken etc (previously didn't before the update to 2023.6.0)...but if I change the HW Buffer size (I run it at 256 but if I literally just select a different number and then go back to 256) the CPU load instantly goes down to 20ish % and lets me play the session.

Is that a common occurence?

**Update - if I then try and record something (VST on an Instrument track) typically the CPU spikes back to 100%

Thanks

Nick

Sandra Report

SiSoftware Sandra

ID
Host Name : Nick-PC
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Computer
Model : GigaByte Default string
Serial Number : Default*******
Chassis : OEM Desktop
Mainboard : GigaByte X99P-SLI-CF
Serial Number : Default*******
BIOS : AMI (OEM) F23 07/22/2016
Intel Management Engine (ME) : 9.1.37.1002

System Memory
Total Memory : 64GB DIMM DDR4

Processors
Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6800K CPU @ 3.40GHz (6C 3.4GHz, 2.8GHz IMC, 6x 256kB L2, 15MB L3)
Socket/Slot : FC LGA2011

Chipset
Memory Controller : Gigabyte Xeon (Broadwell-E) DMI2 100MHz
Memory Controller : Intel Xeon (Broadwell-E) Memory Controller 0 - Target Address/Thermal/RAS 100MHz, 4x 16GB DIMM DDR4 2.13GHz 256-bit
Memory Controller : Intel Xeon (Broadwell-E) Target Address/Thermal/RAS 100MHz

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK32GX4M4A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK16GX4M2A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK32GX4M4A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK16GX4M2A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK32GX4M4A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK16GX4M2A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK32GX4M4A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)
Memory Module : Corsair/Micron CMK16GX4M2A2666C16 8GB DIMM DDR4 1Rx8 PC4-21300U DDR4-2666 XMP (15-15-16-37 4-52-17-3)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : Philips PHL 325C7
(1920x1080, 31.5")
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 (192S 1C SM5.5 953MHz, 512kB L2, 1GB 1.8GHz 64-bit, PCIe 2.0 x8)

Graphics Processor
CUDA : NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 (192S 1C SM3.5 953MHz, 512kB L2, 1GB 1.8GHz/1.8GHz 64-bit)
OpenCL : NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 (192S 1C SM3.0 953MHz, 512kB L2, 1GB 1.8GHz/1.8GHz 64-bit)
D3D 11 : NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 (192S 1C SM11.5 953MHz, 512kB L2, 1GB 1.8GHz/1.8GHz 64-bit)
OpenGL : NVIDIA GeForce GT 710/PCIe/SSE2 (192S 1C SM4.60 953MHz, 512kB L2, 1GB 1.8GHz/1.8GHz 64-bit)

Storage Devices
Disk : WDC WD40EZRZ-00GXCB0 (4TB, SATA600, 3.5", 5400rpm)
Disk : Samsung SSD 860 QVO 2TB (2TB, SATA600, 2.5", SSD, SED)
Disk : INTEL SSDPEKKW010T7 (1TB, PCIe2/3x4/NVMe, SSD)
Disk : SanDisk Cruzer Blade (15.6GB, USB2)
Disk : Novation Onboarding Drive (196.6kB, USB1)
Optical : ATAPI iHAS124 F (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW)

Logical Storage Devices
Storage (F:) : 4TB (NTFS, 4kB) @ WDC WD40EZRZ-00GXCB0 (4TB, SATA600, 3.5", 5400rpm)
New Volume (E:) : 2TB (NTFS, 4kB) @ Samsung SSD 860 QVO 2TB (2TB, SATA600, 2.5", SSD, SED)
System Reserved : 500MB (NTFS, 4kB) @ INTEL SSDPEKKW010T7 (1TB, PCIe2/3x4/NVMe, SSD)
Removable Drive (G:) : 15GB (FAT32, 16kB) @ SanDisk Cruzer Blade (15.6GB, USB2)
LAUNCHKEY (H:) : 140kB (FAT, 4kB, Read-Only) @ Novation Onboarding Drive (196.6kB, USB1)
Hard Disk (C:) : 953GB (NTFS, 4kB) @ INTEL SSDPEKKW010T7 (1TB, PCIe2/3x4/NVMe, SSD)
Hard Disk : 574MB (NTFS, 4kB) @ INTEL SSDPEKKW010T7 (1TB, PCIe2/3x4/NVMe, SSD)
Optical Drive (D:) : N/A @ ATAPI iHAS124 F (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW)

Storage System
Storage Pool : Primordial (6.4TB)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller : Gigabyte ICH99 (Wellsburg) LPC Controller
LPC Hub Controller : ITE IT8620E
Audio Device : Gigabyte ICH99 (Wellsburg) HD Audio Controller
Audio Device : ASUS GK208 HDMI/DP Audio Controller
Audio Codec : nVidia nForce4 ISA Bridge
Disk Controller : Gigabyte ICH99 (Wellsburg) sSATA Controller [AHCI mode]
Disk Controller : Intel SSDPEKKW256G7 256GB
USB Controller : Gigabyte ICH99 (Wellsburg) USB3 xHCI Host Controller
USB Controller : Gigabyte ICH99 (Wellsburg) USB2 Enhanced Host Controller #2
USB Controller : Gigabyte ICH99 (Wellsburg) USB2 Enhanced Host Controller #1
USB Controller : 8738 DSL6540 USB 3.1 Controller [Alpine Ridge]
SMBus/i2c Controller : Intel ICH SMBus
SMBus/i2c Controller : Intel MCP5-E(P) XMB Ch 0 SMBus
SMBus/i2c Controller : Intel MCP5-E(P) XMB Ch 1 SMBus

Printers and Faxes
Printer : Microsoft Software Printer Driver (300x300, Colour)
Printer : Microsoft XPS Document Writer v4 (600x600, Colour)
Printer : Microsoft Print To PDF (600x600, Colour)
Fax : Microsoft Shared Fax Driver (200x200)

Biometrics
Voice : Analog NUI Voice Virtual Sensor (Voice)

Peripherals
Media Player : Novation Onboarding Drive (140kB)
Media Player : SanDisk Cruzer Blade (14.52GB)

Network Services
Network Adapter : Intel(R) Ethernet Connection (2) I218-V (Ethernet)
Wireless Adapter : D-Link DWA-582 Wireless AC1200 Dual Band PCI Express Adapter (Wifi5 (802.11ac/VHT), AES-CCMP, 54Mbps / 173.25Mbps)

Operating System
Windows System : Microsoft Windows 10 Professional 10.0.19045
Platform Compliance : x64

Performance Enhancing Tips
Warning 2513 : TPM not detected. Some security features are unavailable.
Tip 3 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.

[albee1952]

Hmmm, not sure what's going on but here are troubleshooting steps I would take:
1-uninstall PT and install the previous version you had and test.
2-Look for a bad plugin(plenty of direction on the DUC for troubleshooting this one)
3-are you trying to run sessions(this session, anyway) or sample libraries from your WD 4TB drive? The sandra report shows it as a 5400 rpm drive which could be a problem with any large session.

[BScout]

changing buffer size clears the audio interface's (and/or audio driver's) buffer (emptying it.) And doing it in Pro Tools, it resets the Pro Tools playback engine (changes in that window for most settings do that part.)

I am not finding an audio interface listed in your SisSandra. Are you using one or something like ASIO4ALL with the onboard audio? If you are doing the second (which is extremely unwise when you can get very cheap audio interfaces with ASIO drivers), then uninstall and reinstall ASIO4ALL. If you do have an audio interface, reinstall the audio interface drivers.

In essence, Pro Tools is having a hard time communicating with your audio interface and the problem lies with the audio interface. So you need to fix that. Making adjustments in the Playback Engine is just temporarily resetting it.

[Cruz Azul]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Hmmm, not sure what's going on but here are troubleshooting steps I would take:
1-uninstall PT and install the previous version you had and test.
2-Look for a bad plugin(plenty of direction on the DUC for troubleshooting this one)
3-are you trying to run sessions(this session, anyway) or sample libraries from your WD 4TB drive? The sandra report shows it as a 5400 rpm drive which could be a problem with any large session.

Thanks @albee1952 - I appreciate the quick reply.
Working on the plugin as you suggested.
And - yep, running samples from the WD Drive. I had never thought about it only being 5400. Time to get an SSD in to replace it I reckon! Is it just as easy as cloning what's on there already and installing the newie?

[Cruz Azul]

Thankyou @BScout!!!!!

Yep - using a Focusrite Clarett USB 4 Pre. Have just updated the drivers (why didn't I think of that!) and it's working with no probs. Much appreciated.

Now just got to work on the slow session load times.... :)

[Darryl Ramm]

Start by determining the size of the session. Size of the session file itself as well as the whole session folder is a good useful info. Some plugins (cough iZotope, can *really* bloat session size and startup time).

Are you measuring this load time with disk cache (set to what size) or disk cache "normal"? You have lots of memory, presumably disk cache is set large. Are you measuring the time until the disk cache meter loads everything or the time to the session appears ready to use. Disk cache load time may be significantly longer. Measure both.

Do all sessions seem slow to load or only some? (do they use specific plugins, VIs etc.).

Recheck all optimizations.

Mostly storage related questions...

Where are your sessions stored?

Why is your INTEL SSDPEKKW010T7 showing up as a PCIe 2 device when it is PCIe 3? Whatever adapter/slot you have it in get in in a PCIe 3 compatible one.

The Samsung 860 QVO 2TB is only SATA III you can replace that with PCIe 4 M.2/NVMe drives at low cost and hopefully have free PCIe slot(s) to install a M.2 adapter card.

The WDC WD40EZRZ-00GXCB0 used as Storage (F:) is only a 4,800 RPM drive, that is so painfully slow I'd not even use it as a backup drive.

If disk performance is an issue here you might be well served by replacing some of these drives with Samsung 990 Pro M.2 drives. They are not expensive. Get the heatsink versions as long as those heatsinks will fit. Be very careful buying multi-M.2 slot PCIe adapter cards until you understand if the PC has bifurcation support and what adapter card you should purchase.

I hope the SanDisk Cruzer Blade is for file transfer only. Especially since it's FAT32. You might want to reformat that as exFAT. No you still can't run Pro Tools on it, but it's just more robust/better supported filesystem.

Make certain you do not have parts of sessions you are trying to load scattered across the slow drives, including the Cruzer blade. e.g. do Save Copy In... to your fastest drive to make sure.

For all those SSDs you should be making sure that their firmware is up to date and you can also look at them and see the wear life etc. looks OK. Use Samsung Magician software for the Samsung Drives. Look at drive health and temps. Lots of info online there. Make sure you have backups before updating firmware.

[Cruz Azul]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Start by determining the size of the session. Size of the session file itself as well as the whole session folder is a good useful info. Some plugins (cough iZotope, can *really* bloat session size and startup time).

Are you measuring this load time with disk cache (set to what size) or disk cache "normal"? You have lots of memory, presumably disk cache is set large. Are you measuring the time until the disk cache meter loads everything or the time to the session appears ready to use. Disk cache load time may be significantly longer. Measure both.

Do all sessions seem slow to load or only some? (do they use specific plugins, VIs etc.).

Recheck all optimizations.

Mostly storage related questions...

Where are your sessions stored?

Why is your INTEL SSDPEKKW010T7 showing up as a PCIe 2 device when it is PCIe 3? Whatever adapter/slot you have it in get in in a PCIe 3 compatible one.

The Samsung 860 QVO 2TB is only SATA III you can replace that with PCIe 4 M.2/NVMe drives at low cost and hopefully have free PCIe slot(s) to install a M.2 adapter card.

The WDC WD40EZRZ-00GXCB0 used as Storage (F:) is only a 4,800 RPM drive, that is so painfully slow I'd not even use it as a backup drive.

If disk performance is an issue here you might be well served by replacing some of these drives with Samsung 990 Pro M.2 drives. They are not expensive. Get the heatsink versions as long as those heatsinks will fit. Be very careful buying multi-M.2 slot PCIe adapter cards until you understand if the PC has bifurcation support and what adapter card you should purchase.

I hope the SanDisk Cruzer Blade is for file transfer only. Especially since it's FAT32. You might want to reformat that as exFAT. No you still can't run Pro Tools on it, but it's just more robust/better supported filesystem.

Make certain you do not have parts of sessions you are trying to load scattered across the slow drives, including the Cruzer blade. e.g. do Save Copy In... to your fastest drive to make sure.

For all those SSDs you should be making sure that their firmware is up to date and you can also look at them and see the wear life etc. looks OK. Use Samsung Magician software for the Samsung Drives. Look at drive health and temps. Lots of info online there. Make sure you have backups before updating firmware.

Thanks for such a detailed reply Darryl! A couple of your points are above my tech knowledge so I will have to investigate further and reply. Definitely going to check my motherboard for possibilities with another SSD (or replacing the spinner with an SSD). The cruzer blade just has my iLok stuff on it - is that an issue do you think? Thanks again - such a good forum for getting help.

[DontLetMeDrown]

Not sure what's up with the buffer size, but I've experienced that in the past too. Usually from pushing the system with too many plugins.

Regarding the slow loading, the only time I see that is with Waves plugins, there is an ongoing issue. See this thread if you're using Waves plugins-

https://forum.waves.com/t/solved-wav...o-load/3536/46

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Cruz Azul

Thanks for such a detailed reply Darryl! A couple of your points are above my tech knowledge so I will have to investigate further and reply. Definitely going to check my motherboard for possibilities with another SSD (or replacing the spinner with an SSD). The cruzer blade just has my iLok stuff on it - is that an issue do you think? Thanks again - such a good forum for getting help.

Who knows if disk is a cause here but you might as well upgrade to modern NVMe SSD at least for boot/audio sessions/samples (what may share the same drive(s)). Probably a good idea overall, but don't just assume your disk setup is the cause of your slow loads without doing more investigation.

Not sure what iLok stuff you have on a Cruzer blade but that will not affect session load time.

(And overall I'm assuming you really mean session load time after Pro Tools has already started up, loaded its plugins etc. and you do File>Open on a session and time that).

[Cruz Azul]

Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown

Not sure what's up with the buffer size, but I've experienced that in the past too. Usually from pushing the system with too many plugins.

Regarding the slow loading, the only time I see that is with Waves plugins, there is an ongoing issue. See this thread if you're using Waves plugins-

https://forum.waves.com/t/solved-wav...o-load/3536/46

Wow - checked out the Waves thread, followed the instructions and the loading times are faster than they have ever been - thanks so much for the advice!