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  #1  
Old 12-05-2016, 09:21 AM
Tim Ripley's Avatar
Tim Ripley Tim Ripley is offline
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Default Midi through delay with hardware synths *SOLVED!*

SOLVED!
Look later in this thread for the bold red text for the workaround/solution.

Please don't comment on this thread if you don't use hardware synths and the midi thru function in Pro Tools.

I am getting a delay that is large enough to make it difficult to play quick passages on the piano or any percussion. I have tried three different interfaces and they all have the same delay with Pro Tools. All three interfaces work perfectly with Digital Performer with no perceived delay. I am not monitoring the output of the synths in Pro tools at all. The synths are monitored directly from the console. I've been doing this for 30 years with Digital Performer. No audio is being run through Pro Tools - just the midi information on the way to the synth. The delay goes away if I open the dialog box for playback engine and change ANY setting but, when I exit the dialog box, the day returns immediately. I have no plugins running in Pro Tools and only one track in the session. I've seen others post about this problem but I've not seen any solutions - just a bunch of guys talking about VI's, keeping the buffer setting low, and not running effects on the master bus. This has nothing to do with any of that.
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Timothy Ripley
Composer, engineer, musician

Mac Pro (Late 2013)
3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3
AMD FirePro D500 3072 MB
Dual 4Tb Thunderbolt G Drives
Acer B326HUL 32" 2560 X 1440, VIZIO video monitor
Sierra 10.13.2, Pro Tools 18.1.0.241, EuControl 18.3.0.244
Lots of WAVES Plugins, Avid Artist Mix and Control
Digital Performer 9.51, MOTU 1248 (Thunderbolt), MOTU 2408 MkII (x2)
MOTU MTP AV (USB), a bunch of hardware synths, mic preamps, & outboard FX

Last edited by Tim Ripley; 12-08-2016 at 10:14 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2016, 11:48 PM
Base12 Base12 is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

I use 95% 1980s hardware synths/drums. I have sync issues many times and the only section where I can correct this is in PT menu, go to Setup/Preference/MIDI, then in the field Global MIDI Playback offset wither enter a positive or negative number such as -400 or 400, then playback your drum machine and recorded midi notes/audio. Play with the numbers.
Also, in the Menu-> Options, try Delay Compensation on or off. Its a trial and error but once you find the number for the gear, it syncs up fine.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2016, 04:30 AM
ChuckS ChuckS is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

This delay with outboard gear seems to be tied to the audio buffer size. I find the bigger the buffer the longer the delay. Not quite sure why they would adjust the MIDI timing like this for outboard MIDI thru. I haven't experienced this in other DAWs.
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PT 2019.10 DP 10.01 VEP 7.x 828mkII ADA8200 MTP-AV 2011 Mac Mini i7 Quad High Sierra.6
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2016, 07:32 PM
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Tim Ripley Tim Ripley is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Base12 View Post
I use 95% 1980s hardware synths/drums. I have sync issues many times and the only section where I can correct this is in PT menu, go to Setup/Preference/MIDI, then in the field Global MIDI Playback offset wither enter a positive or negative number such as -400 or 400, then playback your drum machine and recorded midi notes/audio. Play with the numbers.
Also, in the Menu-> Options, try Delay Compensation on or off. Its a trial and error but once you find the number for the gear, it syncs up fine.
This has nothing to do with playback or sync. It has to do with the delay while trying to play the synths live.
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Timothy Ripley
Composer, engineer, musician

Mac Pro (Late 2013)
3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3
AMD FirePro D500 3072 MB
Dual 4Tb Thunderbolt G Drives
Acer B326HUL 32" 2560 X 1440, VIZIO video monitor
Sierra 10.13.2, Pro Tools 18.1.0.241, EuControl 18.3.0.244
Lots of WAVES Plugins, Avid Artist Mix and Control
Digital Performer 9.51, MOTU 1248 (Thunderbolt), MOTU 2408 MkII (x2)
MOTU MTP AV (USB), a bunch of hardware synths, mic preamps, & outboard FX
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2016, 07:33 PM
Tim Ripley's Avatar
Tim Ripley Tim Ripley is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
This delay with outboard gear seems to be tied to the audio buffer size. I find the bigger the buffer the longer the delay. Not quite sure why they would adjust the MIDI timing like this for outboard MIDI thru. I haven't experienced this in other DAWs.
I get exactly the same delay no matter where the buffer is set.
__________________
Timothy Ripley
Composer, engineer, musician

Mac Pro (Late 2013)
3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3
AMD FirePro D500 3072 MB
Dual 4Tb Thunderbolt G Drives
Acer B326HUL 32" 2560 X 1440, VIZIO video monitor
Sierra 10.13.2, Pro Tools 18.1.0.241, EuControl 18.3.0.244
Lots of WAVES Plugins, Avid Artist Mix and Control
Digital Performer 9.51, MOTU 1248 (Thunderbolt), MOTU 2408 MkII (x2)
MOTU MTP AV (USB), a bunch of hardware synths, mic preamps, & outboard FX
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2016, 07:47 PM
Blinkofani Blinkofani is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ripley View Post
This has nothing to do with playback or sync. It has to do with the delay while trying to play the synths live.
I have no delay when playing ext. synth. Here's my setup: I select a midi track and the audio is coming back in PT through an audio track that I leave on input monitoring("I" button). In Options, Midi thru and Delay Compensation are ticked. Buffer is at 256. Hope it helps.

Blink
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  #7  
Old 12-07-2016, 10:09 PM
Tim Ripley's Avatar
Tim Ripley Tim Ripley is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinkofani View Post
I have no delay when playing ext. synth. Here's my setup: I select a midi track and the audio is coming back in PT through an audio track that I leave on input monitoring("I" button). In Options, Midi thru and Delay Compensation are ticked. Buffer is at 256. Hope it helps.

Blink
I don't monitor the synths in pro tools, and the buffer has no effect on the delay whether it's set to minimum or maximum. The only thing going through pro tools is the MIDI. What MIDI interface and controller are you using?
__________________
Timothy Ripley
Composer, engineer, musician

Mac Pro (Late 2013)
3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3
AMD FirePro D500 3072 MB
Dual 4Tb Thunderbolt G Drives
Acer B326HUL 32" 2560 X 1440, VIZIO video monitor
Sierra 10.13.2, Pro Tools 18.1.0.241, EuControl 18.3.0.244
Lots of WAVES Plugins, Avid Artist Mix and Control
Digital Performer 9.51, MOTU 1248 (Thunderbolt), MOTU 2408 MkII (x2)
MOTU MTP AV (USB), a bunch of hardware synths, mic preamps, & outboard FX
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:46 AM
Blinkofani Blinkofani is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ripley View Post
I don't monitor the synths in pro tools, and the buffer has no effect on the delay whether it's set to minimum or maximum. The only thing going through pro tools is the MIDI. What MIDI interface and controller are you using?
Korg Z1 going in a Cakewalk UM-1g, sending Midi to a Dave Smith Mopho and Korg Wavestation...

Blink
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iMac 27" i5 w/24Gb ram, macOS 10.14.6, PT 2019.6 Vanilla, Logic Pro X 10.4.7, UA Arrow, UAD2 Satellite Quad TB, LaCie ext. SSD, Genelec 8040a, Dave Smith Mopho, Korg Z1ex, Gibson Les Paul Classic, Fender Telecaster & Stratocaster, Komplete 8, Omnisphere 1.5, Korg Legacy Coll., Arturia Moog Modular and Prophet.
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2016, 07:11 AM
ChuckS ChuckS is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinkofani View Post
Korg Z1 going in a Cakewalk UM-1g, sending Midi to a Dave Smith Mopho and Korg Wavestation...

Blink
Just for grins - if you bump up your buffer to 1024 is a delay introduced? The OP and I are using the same MIDI interface, so there might be something there.
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PT 2019.10 DP 10.01 VEP 7.x Komplete Audio6 HP Envy 8G i7 Quad Laptop Win10 (x64 1909)
PT 2019.10 DP 10.01 VEP 7.x 828mkII ADA8200 MTP-AV 2011 Mac Mini i7 Quad High Sierra.6
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2016, 11:14 AM
chroma17 chroma17 is offline
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Default Re: Midi through delay with hardware synths

Have you tried un-checking "MIDI Notes and Controllers" under the "Delay Compensation for External Devices" heading in the MIDI preferences? This can effect MIDI being routed through Pro Tools even if you are not recording.

I only have a slight delay (around 10ms) sending MIDI via an RME AIO PCIe card.
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