Workaround for lack of side chain delay compensation

[OliverH]

Originally Posted by mattdugred

Hmm are you sure you've done it just the way I said? its still working for me fine in that session. I have no plugs on the trigger track in this instance, but if I did I could still simply duplicate it with no plugs and use that as the trigger. FYI I used two waves soundshifters which create the biggest delay of anything I have to test, so it was easily noticeable.

Maybe I'm missing something but when I try it exactly the way you did it with no plugs on the trigger or slave tracks, then yes, everything is in time, but it seems a bit moot as there's no delay. However, when I put plugs on either the trigger or slave track, I immediately get flaming and the "dly comp" track doesn't seem to compensate for anything.

Linked below is a pic of your method but I have delay inducing plugs on my trigger track. This is definitely giving me a hugely noticeable flam.

https://app.box.com/s/e4a6q6plsiyfwcojt4a1301v78re7lbr

[Wireline]

Have you considered a simple hardware solution, inserting a compressor and using a cloned track as the trigger? Would take away the offline bounce, but would offer so many more possibilities .

[OliverH]

Originally Posted by Wireline

Have you considered a simple hardware solution, inserting a compressor and using a cloned track as the trigger? Would take away the offline bounce, but would offer so many more possibilities .

I mean, yes we could do that, and in a way, that's what my current best solution procedure includes, partially... that is, creating a cloned trigger track with no delay on it and then reconciling any delay that may be on the slave track via a master fader in route from the aux send from the trigger track (described in more detail further up in this thread)

However, the method you offer, while likely a solid one, kind of defeats the purpose of this thread which is to get to the bottom of why Avid's Pro Tools HD mixer doesn't behave like an analog mixer. Obviously we know there are limitations with plugins in a digital mixer environment because they're not hardware and they induce delay... it's just that ADC for help with making our 3rd party plugin collections friendly to use in all scenarios doesn't take into account sidechain routing, particularly in complicated mix setups that might be ever-changing and you compose and/or mix.

ADC is pretty solid-ish... but not quite there when it comes to sidechains. Seems like Avid's response has been that you need to 1.) use an HDX system to have this "luxury" and 2.) only be using AAX DSP plugs in your sidechain routing so that the HDX setup can take care of ADC for those "behind the scenes" aux sends, etc.

Just a shame that ADC exists in PT but only applies to track output routing, not track-to-track routing.

Look I'm all for limitations. I think they can be a good thing in the studio. Keeps you fresh. Keeps you problem solving. But I just see PT's implementation of ADC as an incomplete thought. We're close. So close. But just not quite there.

I love sidechains, what can I say. I think they're one of the most powerful mix tools there is... but that's just me. And I bought Pro Tools HD to be a be-all-end-all mix solution, in the box and out. Oh well. That's all for now.

[mattdugred]

hey oliver,

you dont need to have plugins on the trigger track. if you do need to process it, simply clone it as i said and use the clone sans plugins (muted with send pre fader) as the trigger track. make sense? the point of all this is to have the delay automatically compensated for, if you have to change a setting every time you add or subtract a plugin in a complicated mix, that is not a workable solution IMO.

[jello]

Originally Posted by demodigi

Hi guys,

Case 2/ :
Track 1: (drive track)
Send to "bus 1"
Track 2: (compressed track)
inserts : channelstrip (0 latency, key input : "bus 1")->Maxim (1024 latency)
Shouldn't be any latency issue with ADC set to ON

I tried this with xfer lfo tool, with midi in - it didn`t work. The sidechained track came out to early in the session.

Any suggestions?

[jello]

Originally Posted by jello

I tried this with xfer lfo tool, with midi in - it didn`t work. The sidechained track came out to early in the session.

Any suggestions?

possible solution:


I did force-enabled Delay Compensation (so the text turned blue), I am not really sure why, but the sidechained track lined up again.

[willmikkelsonaudio]

I have a definitive and relatively simple solution!

No track nudging necessary.

1) Duplicate whatever track you want to trigger the sidechain compressor, call it "SCAudio" or something.

2) Now, click the output of that duplicated track and hit "new track" and send it to an Aux track and name it "SC" or something like that.

3) Now, here's the kicker, go down to the delay compensation box at the bottom of the AUX track and right click on the "cmp" section and hit "Disable Track Compensation."

4) Now send the output of the AUX track to whatever bus you'll be using for the sidechain/key input.

Now it will be perfectly synced! This works because audio tracks do not allow you to disable delay compensation on a per-track basis but aux tracks DO. But we need an audio track to hold the trigger audio so sending it THROUGH an aux before hitting a bus allows us to offload delay comp duties onto the aux track and then disable it on the aux. I really don't know why disabling delay comp makes it sync up but I know that it does!

[OliverH]

not sure what is up, but i tried everything you said (excited to see if it worked!) and couldn't get it to work, sadly. Still tons of delay when using lots of plugs on trigger track (which is basically the achilles heel of the ADC issue with side chains in the first place). I'm on HD Native, PT12HD, but it wouldn't work for me. Best solution for me is still to copy trigger track and commit that audio and/or hard bypass any delay-inducing plugs on the trigger track so that total delay for trigger track is ZERO.

[stakeoutstudios]

Will Avid please just fix this already for all versions of Pro Tools? Why even offer an 'out of time sidechain' function? Just plain daft.

[john1192]

Originally Posted by OliverH

not sure what is up, but i tried everything you said (excited to see if it worked!) and couldn't get it to work, sadly. Still tons of delay when using lots of plugs on trigger track (which is basically the achilles heel of the ADC issue with side chains in the first place). I'm on HD Native, PT12HD, but it wouldn't work for me. Best solution for me is still to copy trigger track and commit that audio and/or hard bypass any delay-inducing plugs on the trigger track so that total delay for trigger track is ZERO.

makes sense .. why would you need plugins on the trigger track at all ????