PT 2018 Copy and paste / duplicate doing something strange.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by PMF Media

Um... no it didn't, everything snapped perfectly to the grid regardless of Samples/ticks as time ref in all versions prior PT 11 (PT 10 and down

Originally Posted by PMF Media

I too have a working version of PT10 and can confirm that when I duplicate clips in 10 they park themselves perfectly behind the preceding clip, on the grid every time.

I don't think so. Here is PT10 working exactly as it should regarding ticks and samples, i.e. drifting off the grid in "samples" mode, staying bang on in "ticks" mode. QED.

https://youtu.be/0QjDk9GlAgo

BUT.....

Interestingly though, trying to perform this exact same procedure in PT2018.4 and using "cmd-a" to select all the clips creates a selection that extends beyond the actual MIDI clip boundaries on the track. Not sure what this is all about...?!!

https://youtu.be/4f98zqHXbIk

[PMF Media]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

I don't think so. Here is PT10 working exactly as it should regarding ticks and samples, i.e. drifting off the grid in "samples" mode, staying bang on in "ticks" mode. QED.

https://youtu.be/0QjDk9GlAgo

BUT.....

Interestingly though, trying to perform this exact same procedure in PT2018.4 and using "cmd-a" to select all the clips creates a selection that extends beyond the actual MIDI clip boundaries on the track. Not sure what this is all about...?!!

https://youtu.be/4f98zqHXbIk

I see... I'm talking AUDIO rather than MIDI, the example in the vid is certainly extreme! I usually(99% of the time) do all my major MIDI work in LPX then move the audio over to PT for editing and mixing. I still contend that up until PT 11, sample rounding never caused me issue - with AUDIO clip/regions.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by PMF Media

I see... I'm talking AUDIO rather than MIDI, the example in the vid is certainly extreme! I usually(99% of the time) do all my major MIDI work in LPX then move the audio over to PT for editing and mixing. I still contend that up until PT 11, sample rounding never caused me issue - with AUDIO clip/regions.

Yeah I thought you might say that, so I've made another video for you proving that PT10 does exactly the same thing for audio, i.e. drifting off the grid in "samples" mode, staying bang on in "ticks" mode. You're welcome. :)


https://youtu.be/CmCQGoqZ-0I

[innesireinar]

I live with this rounding error since vs 6. But since vs 12 I'm encountering this on midi clips as well. This is very annoying because sometimes when copying midi clips they lose the first note/s. Upgrading from pt 11 to 12 was a disaster

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by innesireinar

I live with this rounding error since vs 6. But since vs 12 I'm encountering this on midi clips as well. This is very annoying because sometimes when copying midi clips they lose the first note/s. Upgrading from pt 11 to 12 was a disaster

Have you not read a word I’ve written?

[innesireinar]

What I'm saying is not what yo are talking about. I'm talking about rounding error on midi clips. Never happened before pt12. At least from my experience

[Evermore]

Confirmed! I'm on 2018.4 and I have the same issue. I get random overlaps and lengths when I copy or duplicate Audio/midi clips. This is definitely a bug.

[innesireinar]

Come on Avid, this issue, especially on midi material, is unacceptable, don't force me to downgrade to yosemite/PT11.

[ibbod0]

I don't think anyone still complaining about this even bothered to read the reason why it happens. if you set the tempo to 127bpm and you copy one bar of audio recorded at 48khz from bar 1 (which is 90709 samples long) into bar 2 (which is 90708 samples long), how do you suppose that it should not overlap onto bar 3?

if you duplicate it with a sample timebase it will duplicate end on end with no overlapping but it will get one sample behind the bar line every few bars (depending on the tempo)

if you duplicate with ticks timebase, it will stay on the grid and the last sample will be chopped off every few bars (again depending on the rounding cause by the tempo)

I'm really interested in how other DAWs handle this. I'm guessing they choose sticking to the grid vs being sample accurate so their users don't think they're stupid.

By the way!
You won't have any issues if you use the following tempos at 48Khz sample rate (BPM):
37.5. 40, 46.875, 50, 60, 75, 93.75, 100, 120, 150, 187.5, 200, 300, 375,

[innesireinar]

Originally Posted by ibbod0

I don't think anyone still complaining about this even bothered to read the reason why it happens. if you set the tempo to 127bpm and you copy one bar of audio recorded at 48khz from bar 1 (which is 90709 samples long) into bar 2 (which is 90708 samples long), how do you suppose that it should not overlap onto bar 3?

if you duplicate it with a sample timebase it will duplicate end on end with no overlapping but it will get one sample behind the bar line every few bars (depending on the tempo)

if you duplicate with ticks timebase, it will stay on the grid and the last sample will be chopped off every few bars (again depending on the rounding cause by the tempo)

I'm really interested in how other DAWs handle this. I'm guessing they choose sticking to the grid vs being sample accurate so their users don't think they're stupid.

By the way!
You won't have any issues if you use the following tempos at 48Khz sample rate (BPM):
37.5. 40, 46.875, 50, 60, 75, 93.75, 100, 120, 150, 187.5, 200, 300, 375,

Even by duplicating clips with ticks timebase the clip start sometimes are off grid line. Btw I learned to live with this when handling audio material, but since pt 12 it happens on midi clips as well. And it is hard to live with