Little by little (upgrading)

[Ryan Young]

Hi,
I'm a 22 year old student with a home studio. I started off with a Digi001 on my PC, now I have an MBox on a g4 powermac and a Digi002 on a g4 powerbook. I'm constantly upgrading to bigger and better things as I get better with my engineering. I'm doing a lot of sound design for films and stuff, and I have used the TDM systems for some of those. I really want my next upgrade to be a TDM system. What is the cheapest way for me to do this? Pro Tools HD or TDM won't work with a Digi002 right? I know if I spend a lot now, the payoff will be worth it later, but I can not afford that. How much is the cheapest controller that works with TDM and how much is Pro Tools software (or if they come together) to have a TDM system?

[JC925602]

Cheapest: find a job in a studio that have TDM...

Little by little:

• Find client that like to work with you and will stay with you when you're gone increase your rate (80$+ an hour) because of the upgrade, your growing experience and talent.

• Very good speakers for monitoring can cost many K$ (waist of money if you only place FX, and edit)

• a good microphone for VO

• a good pre-amp for the good microphone

• better control room and boot, better isolation, acoustic...

• Sound FX library costs in the K$ (waist of money if you only mix)

• a nice big TV and some kind of video interface Avid Mojo, ADVC 100, etc)

• 2 big and nice computer monitors

• some kind of backup and archiving solution

None of that is lost when you upgrade to TDM. The upgrade will be like this:

HD core card with or without Accel: from 8000$
interface 92 i/o or 192 i/o: 2000$, 4000$ and up if you take more than one or for other brand
a control surface (motor mix, control 8, ..., icon) from 1000$ to more than 80K$ and the time to get used to it
some plug-ins: couple of K$

installation and cabling

Maybe:
sync i/o 2100$
a new computer...
a black burst generator
some kind of VCR, betacam, betacam HD, dv cam...
some microphones and pre-amps
some gear to make recording on site
sound miner

a second room for editing only (your mBox with DV toolkit)

someone to take the phone call, appointment, do accounting
someone to do tech support so you don't have to take care of it.
an assistant (file transfer, omf, basic editing,...)

Also:
new clients
time and money to make the upgrades when they come.
ability to handle stress and weird clients


AND very important:
a good chair and a good table to be able to work many years without suffering from RSI

nice, comfortable lighting in the studio and a good espresso machine

It can take many years, so prices will change. As for myself, I'm not the kind of guy who would like to have his own business, so i work for other peoples that never come on the DUC, they let me take care of all the support and learning, so they have a ProTools that never crash, transparent upgrade, and someone to teach them the new stuff.

When my employer upgraded from ProTools III with a G3 to HD1 with a G4 it cost him around 45 000$Can. It was for a G4, sync I/o, 192 i/o, 888/24, SCSI card, 1 SCSI drive, 2 FW drive, 2 LCD monitor, ADVC 100, a motor mix.

All the other stuff (microphone, DA-88, Betacam, speakers, console, ...) stayed there. If you choose what you buy wisely, you will keep it for a long time (unless your place burn to the ground).

And don't forget, good ears and talent is not something you can buy, only acquire or hire.

JC

[Chief Technician]

Maybe:
sync i/o 2100$

Not maybe, but definitely.

a black burst generator

See above.

some kind of VCR, betacam, betacam HD, dv cam...

There is no such thing as BetacamHD. Perhaps you mean HDcam?

sound miner

Indeed.
You're also going to need the MachineControl and DigiTranslator options.

[trakbytes]

Sheesh, with advice like the previous two posts, I'd want to quit the business and go work at a Burger King. The original poster didn't say he wanted to open up a commercial business, just wanted to get into TDM!

I'm doing a lot of sound design for films and stuff, and I have used the TDM systems for some of those. I really want my next upgrade to be a TDM system. What is the cheapest way for me to do this?

So, for the requirements of the job description, I'd say get a used Mix Plus system with an 888-24. Get a dual-monitor video card for the G4 so you can play Quick-time video to a TV or second computer monitor and have the client supply a Quicktime picture. You don't need black-burst or even a USD/Sync I/O with quicktime reference. Post-production for TV and most features is still done at 48k/24 bit. A Mix-Plus will double the voice count from an 002 system, and have enough processing power to run some decent plug-ins.

Now,I'm not saying this is the best solution. If you're looking for longer-term return on your investment, I'd go for at least an HD core system and a 96 I/O interface. But keep in mind that the value of that gear will also depreciate, so don't invest in it just to play with it. If you're making money with it and can justify the cost, then go for it. But remember, in the end, it's the operator, not the tools that make the career.

rcm

[rockridge98]

How much is the cheapest controller that works with TDM

If I was on a tight budget I would leave out the controller and mix on the screen.

Also you need to think about what parts of your system will go obsolete the fastest.
A good mic, mic pre and monitoring system will still be useful tools even when
your TDM system and host computer are several generations old and seem old as dust.

[Ryan Young]

Hey guys...
Thanks for the info! I've got the mics and monitors and mixing boards and all that. Probably not the BEST of the BEST, but it's hard earned equipment and works great for me. I really want to do sound design for film or tv, I have a pretty big portfolio already, and currently working on 2 films. The last film I worked on, we got to go to Universal Studios for the final 5.1 mix. There was a control|24 and some other HUGE 48 ch automated mixing board to the right of it. Now, I don't care about owning all that, but what I really want it to be able to mix in 5.1 surround. Also, if I use a lot of RTAS plug-ins, my system gets sluggish and sometimes stops while playing (even when there aren't too many sometimes), but that TDM system ran so many things and plug-ins and was still very quick. Any other suggestions from here...? Should I get another program to do my surround mix, should I do something about the RTAS plug-ins? Thanks again to everyone that's given advice already, I really appreciate it.
-Ryan

[trakbytes]

There was a control|24 and some other HUGE 48 ch automated mixing board to the right of it.

Hey Ryan, were you at Mix B in Bluewave Audio? That's a Harrison series 12. That one's tiny compared to the consoles on the main stages. However, I know for a fact that the Control 24 gets used more than the Harrison in that room. The Harrison's mainly a monitor mixer...

Now, if you are sure you really want to mix in surround (you won't need to do this in the realm of sound design; mix decisions are always done on the main mix stage), you will need some kind of control surface. Mixing anything complex with a mouse is just tedious. Also, trying to do anything surround with an LE rig is frustrating. So, get yourself at least a Mix Plus, (preferrably an HD2 Accel setup) and a controller. Keeping budget in mind, a used Mackie HUI can be used to monitor surround, but these are all getting long in the tooth. Maybe something like a Mackie Control or Command 8 could be used with a surround monitoring controller. Plus, now you're going to have to really set up your room, with acoustic treatment and calibrated monitors.

Ok, I'll admit to having attempted some bedroom studio surround mixes for low-budget projects, and you know what? The best you can hope for is marginally acceptable junk. You're not going to do the next big action feature in your home studio. Consider such a setup a learning tool, and take any serious project to a real studio. And don't buy more than you need unless you've got the business to pay it off fast. Gear is just a tool, and it isn't going to be an investment by itself.


Bob McNabb
Mixer, Bluewave Audio

[Ryan Young]

You know what, you're exactly right. I heard it was a baby compared to studio A, I didn't get to see it though. Bluewave was awesome! The people there are really nice and the equipment was really nice, I was like a kid in a candy shop. We only used the Harrison at the end, when we made different mixes for me to have for the "special edition DVD". 98% of our work was on the control|24. I'm fine with my stereo mixes for student films and low-budget films, it's just nice to have the option to do surround if possible, so it's not something I must have.

As far as upgrading my system though, I would like to have a more powerful, more efficient, and quicker machine. When I use a few busses and RTAS plug-ins, my machine gets pretty sluggish. Is it necessary to upgrade my computer or my Pro Tools software/hardware from LE to TDM? Currently I have a 15" 1.5 gHz G4 powerbook with 512 mb of ram, a dual 1.25 gHz G4 powermac with 1.25 gb of DDR ram, and a pretty powerful PC with XP (don't use that muc for Pro Tools). I have the 001 and 002 with Pro Tools 6.4.

Bob, I know you probably hear this a lot... But if you could look at my thread here and give me your advice, that'd be very much appreciated. I'm at that stage where I need to "get my foot in the door", and as far as jobs go, I'll start at the lowest position and try to work my way up. Do you know if there's anything like that available at Bluewave, or anywhere else you could recommend?

Thanks everyone for your help.
-Ryan

[Electrox]

Wanna get a lot for a little? Think "5 years ago", use Digi products, shop Ebay. Best value/dollar. Stay away from tape...

[sprocketman]

Listen to Bob

Get a MixPlus system on Ebay or on Digi Buy and Sell.
Somewhere between $3000.00 and $3500.00
And an 888/24 between $600.00 and $700.00.
You can build a low cost system around these components and do great things.
Your budget goes up some to build even a basic used HD core system and
interface. But check that option out if you have more money.

There are even cheaper options like the Digi D24 Card but you can't use OS X on the early versions of the card, so you have to know which version of the card you're buying if you want OS X. But Pro Tools in OS 9 on a G4 is stable and still works fine. It's all in the operator not the machine.

When you get the BIg Bucks- Get the latest and greatest.