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[romkey]

I'm on my quest to get Xpand! to work. (Which was derailed when I discovered my OS had upgraded to 10.4.5, leading to an OS reinstall, figuring out how to get another copy of PT 7, and other hard lessons I hope I don't have to repeat.)

So, I'm back at 10.4.3, I have PT 7 back on my new PowerBook G4. I installed Xpand! from the disk I received last week and ... apparently nothing.

I'm not seeing an Expand icon or other indication that the install took.

The install hangs a looooong time when it gets to "1 minute left", but exits the install program saying everything worked. I'm at the office (and without my 002 hardware), so I can't fire up PT to see if I get any clues. But since the techs cruising here will be gone by the time I'm at home, I thought I'd ask now ... does this sound kosher, or do I have a bad install disk?

If the answer is: The only sign of it is WITHIN PT when it's running, I will feel even more stuipd but at least I'll know I can go home and start using it.

Gracias.

PS: Is there some kind of key or dongle I can get so I can work on files without plugging in the 002?

[Slim Shady]

Just check your plug-ins folder and see if the Xpand! plug-in is in there.

PS: Is there some kind of key or dongle I can get so I can work on files without plugging in the 002?

You could get an Mbox, they're a little more portible, but some sort of LE hardware must be attached in order to run PTLE.

[lwilliam]

Well, since it's a plugin, you have to have PT running to use it. It's not a stand-alone app.

There's over 600 patches and if you want to go through them quickly, you can use your scroll wheel by holding it directly over the instrument name.

Otherwise, use the +/- keys at the top of the plugin window.

[romkey]

You know, no offense, really, because me being dense is probably the real offense ... but I get this software, load it on ... like a bazillion times. Jump through all these (I'm tempted to start swearing, but I'm going to be polite, sort of) ... FREAKING hoops, including paying $65 to have an Apple service center to reinstall OS 10.4.3 (because Apple sent me bad OS discs), because I think the problem is 10.4.5 (and now I have in my collection of stuff an email from Digi telling me they really don't see ANY issues with 10.4.5, but that's what Sweetwater told me) ... And ... kind of working blindly, because I expect this EXPAND! is going to be a Logic type of software pkg with an icon that fires it up ... and I'm completely baffled ... because I'm an ITRAD fiddler with a studio in my basement ... just making little small run CDs with about a three grand investment in Digi gear ... and I get this HINT ... this whisper of a HINT from some kind conference member, not a freaking Digi support person ... about PLUGINS. So I go to a track menu (one from tonight's session) and go to inserts, and there, voila, is this subtle little Expand! option. And I'm thinking ... why the FLIP have I been TEARING MY HAIR OUT for the past WEEK trying to figure out why Expand! won't install ... and reinstalling my OS ... and losing ALL my email files ... etc. etc. etc. ... when neither the web propaganda, nor the READ FIRST PDFs, nor anything else, gave me clue FREAKING ONE that Expand! wasn't a program per se but some little plug in that you could install and wouldn't even get a hint of until you went jacking with the inserts, which isn't exactly the one of the things me -- stupid me -- thought to do after installing this big new ... oh, forget it. Customer service -- what's that? We only sell to certified experts. Let them figure it out on their own. No wonder there are so many desperate pleas for help in this forum. ... A final shot: I'm in the newspaper biz by day, and one of the WORST SINS is to forget that we know a lot more about a given subject than the people we're serving. Where, pray tell, in the stuff Digi sends you, or in any of the promotional propaganda, does it say Expand!, once installed, appears as an insert? My G-A-W-D!!!!!!!!!!!

[pinosmuse]

Hi Romkey,

I regret you're fuzz with all the downgrading, paying and fooling around to get it to all to work BUT.
Here's a quote from Digi's website on the Xpand! announcement page:

'Xpand!
Xpand! is a free RTAS® sample-playback/synthesis workstation plug-in that.....'
(it's in the page about AIR, or if you click on the Xpand message in the Hotnews area, you'll also get the info when you click "more info about Xpand! anywhere you find it on DIgi's page)

With digi RTAS means "real time audio suite" and a plug-in is the standard format totally integrated into PT.
All standard virtual instruments work that way.
Unlike the Reason Adapted and Live stuff (I suppose you also got the "ignition pack").
Both Live and Reason are independent programs you can run "pluggin" them into your PT by using the ReWire (pretty obvious name IMHO) - plugin.

I understand you're remark about detailed information, but PT LE is the light edition of a system designed for professional users.
Having had some education in sound-engineering is one of the reasons I like PT, they are in a lot of cases pretty correct in using terminology used in pro-audio.
One of the things I see a lot with (audio)pro's is asking some questions like:
What do I want to do?
What equipment do I need?
How does the equipment work?
What do I need to make it work properly?

Apart from the first and (partly)second question all of the others are answered in information on Digi's website or in the PT reference guide.
If you didn't install the information, you can download it straight from the main Downloads page.
"Additional CD Files for Pro Tools 7 Web Installers". It gets you the big guide.

Sometimes when browsing through this board I see people asking question/having problems they could have easily avoided with a little reading and asking themselves the above questions. Digi is a little slow on somethings, but on a lot of stuff rather correct.
Take a little time to get to know your car, it's not an automatic, it's shifting gears manually.

OK, my point:
Digi used their own terminology very correct in the announcement, it's pretty much your job to find out what they mean by it.
It's not like a newspaper explaining something to everybody, it's like a dedicated magazin (sound on sound explaining you what a channel on a mixer is?).
OR
(an expression used among pro friends of mine)
R(ead) T(he) F(******) M(anual) !!!!
Do yourself a favour and read the reference guide, you'll find out a lot off stuff making your PT-life a lot easier.

pardon my french

[romkey]

Oh, I quite agree... I confess to being a novice with this. I wanted to do some recording, and my rep at Sweetwater talked me into getting an M-Box, and we were off to the races. Not real satisfied with that, I soon upgraded to an 002.

I have read the manuals. Honest. I look at them all the time. They help in some ways, not in others. There's a lot of stuff the docs don't make clear. Or, to quote my friend Ray, who was an engineer in LA and now owns a PT-based studio, PT does a lot of things the docs don't even hint at.

My criticism, which I think is valid despite my not sussing out the Digi's promotional lingo, is that this stuff is being sold in great quantities to people who are not trained studio professionals. It therefore behooves Digi, again in my opinion, to make more of an attempt to discuss things on more of a street level with customers who are setting up home-based project studios.

If I were Digi, I would contact Sweetwater & whomever and arrange to send some of their communications and marketing people out to deliver new PTLE systems, see what kind of problems and issues users are having, and then incorporate that into the manuals or a "common problems and solutions" page.

Here's a freebee to start the process. Normally, I charge $100/hour to consult. I'll offer this by way of ammends for my temper tantrum in the last post. When I went from M-Box to 002, I spent, no exaggeration, an entire weekend trying to figure out why my gleaming new mixer would only use two channels. I called the rep Monday and he instantly knew the answer: When you upgrade from M-Box to the 002, you gotta diddle with the settings that otherwise remain locked in the two-channel config. That kind of info noted in an "if you are upgrading from M-Box" paragraph in the install docs would save a certain number of customers from suicidal fantasies.

My final thought: My last remaining issue with this effort to try some midi (I have zero complaints about running the audio side) is that my Yamaha keyboard isn't being recognized via the USB. Needless to say, I've found and reinstalled drivers for both the keyboard and the midi/USB hub thing. This morning, working on this yet again, I discover some reviews that say the hub I have doesn't really work with Yamaha, the manufacturer's claims to the contrary, and to order a Yamaha connection and all will be well. There's another $40. And the maker of the hub that doesn't work? Drum roll: M-Audio, the folks that make Pro Tools.

If I didn't have a lot of dough wrapped up in this, I'd order a copy of Logic Pro and different mixer and see if that worked any better.

My bottom line: I may be a novice home user, like a lot of PTLE users, but I'm still a customer.

[Slim Shady]

I think one of the mistakes you made that lead to your frustration is that you came to the USER conference looking for technical support from the company.

Digi's tech support contact form and phone numbers are also listed under the tech-support section of the website, if you want support from them, that's how you get it. It is a little confusing b/c this conference is hosted on their website, and they do occasionally step in for some of the harder questions or to keep the peace, but like most forums on company websites, it's almost entirely populated only by customers/users trying to help each other, not a way to directly contact the company for individual support.

I think you'll also find that if you talk to the ProAudio people at Sweetwater, they'll be on top of all the current Digi compatibility issues and requirements, a Guitar Center on the other hand is a different matter, but generally they'll have a Digi rep coming through several times a year to keep things in line. I think the biggest problem is just the overall layout of the PT support website. Any and all info you could ever want or need is readily available, but the links and wording are such that the majority of users (and pretty much all new users) miss all those links at the top of the forum pages, which would solve about 80% of the problems people posted here if they just knew they could look there for the answers. It's actually even organized very well, but there's nothing to grab a new frustrated user's attention towards those links, so we end up with a lot of repetitive posts with easy-to-solve solutions, and a lot of confusion from people who don't know how to find manuals and documents that they need. You're not the first customer to get frustrated by not knowing where and how to get the kind of help you were looking for.

Just my 2 cents...

[lwilliam]

PT has one of the lowest learning curves of any audio/midi software on the market - at least any that are considered professional. Garageband is easier and I don't believe that Tracktion is really a "pro" app either. Cubasis might be easier, but unless you don't mind a lot of bugs and crashes, I'd stay away from Steinberg stuff. Logic Pro probably has the steepest learning curve of all audio/midi apps. Opinions, of course, will vary.

However, the term "plug-in" is used across the board with many applications besides music apps. I had familiarity with the term using Microsoft Windows with "plugins" such as grammar plugins. there are also a ton of plugins for Photoshop. I'm surprised that you haven't used the term in your publishing business - or maybe you just didn't realize that Expand! was a plugin although it's mentioned in a bunch of places beginning with the marketing material:

"The first release from the new Digidesign® Advanced Instrument Research Group, Xpand!™ is a free RTAS® sample-playback/synthesis workstation plug-in..."

re the manual: I've read it twice all the way through at this point (v5, then v6.4), and still occasionally refer back to it - and read all the "What's new in version 7" information. You should read the whole thing one time through then after you've recorded and mixed your first song, go back and read it again and learn all the shortcuts that didn't quite make sense on the first read.

If you're up and running now, then just go and have fun with it! Expand is pretty cool!