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  #1  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:42 AM
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DonaldM DonaldM is offline
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Default H/W Buffer and Latency

I know we've had many discussions here about changing the H/W Buffer to the lowest possible when recording, and highest possible when editing/mixing. And I do that. For most of my VI's, I can set the H/W buffer at 128 or 256 and not have any issues. But for a couple of them, namely Omnisphere, and most of the East-West Libraries, I can't go below 512 buffer without getting glitches and such. Are there any other adjustments I might make? I have 24gig of ram, so I thought I might turn streaming off and just load everything into RAM. It takes longer to load up a patch that way. But it doesn't seem to make a whit of difference on latency issues.

Its really noticeable on a lot of patches when its at 512 and there's a bit of delay between pressing a note and the sound coming out the speaker.

What else might I adjust? Somewhere on this forum I recall seeing some folks saying they could set their buffers at 64 or even 32 without issues. I might get away with that with a couple of my VI's...but not many. 128 seems to be the lowest. But its an issue when it has to be 512. At 256 you get skips and hangups.

Thoughts?
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Owner: Dragon Rock Productions
Dell XPS 435T/9000 Win-10 Pro 24gig RAM
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Pro Tools 12.7
Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
JBL LSR4326 Monitors
Yamaha Motif XS8
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  #2  
Old 04-23-2017, 01:22 PM
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DonaldM DonaldM is offline
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

BUMP. Anyone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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"Rule number one in music is there are no rules in music! Rule number two is see rule number one!" Armin Van Buuren
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions
Dell XPS 435T/9000 Win-10 Pro 24gig RAM
IntelCore i7 CPU 920@2.67GHz
Pro Tools 12.7
Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
JBL LSR4326 Monitors
Yamaha Motif XS8
Reason 9.2
PTIEP 2.0
Spectrasonics Omnishpere 2.0
East West Libraries
Nexus2
Xfer Serum
Synapse Audio Dune 2
and 30+ other VI's of various sorts!
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  #3  
Old 04-23-2017, 05:18 PM
unkJE unkJE is offline
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

Hi Donald

While we wait for the experts, I’ll have a go!

I often start by choosing an Instrument for Click Track:
Setup Menu>Click/Countoff>set Output in Click/Countoff options.
Using ‘Save As’ for my User Setting, I can then remove the VI (No Insert) and make its Track Inactive. Just keep the audio, which I prefer to the standard Click Track.
Using PT 11.2.1 HD, I print to audio as I go (Bounce to Disk), to free up resources.

I make all the other “not necessary right now” Tracks and their Plug-Ins Inactive –
I set the H/W Buffer at 64 and record Omnisphere (AAX) with no problems.

For Omnisphere (VST) combined with assorted other VIs and Effects, I love Blue Cat’s Synth version of PatchWork to load “The Lot” in one plug-in. H/W Buffer at 64. Have you tried this way?
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Last edited by unkJE; 04-23-2017 at 05:38 PM. Reason: recommend updating to PatchWork 2.0 (if you haven't already!)
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  #4  
Old 04-23-2017, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

On to what type of drive are you recording?
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  #5  
Old 04-23-2017, 05:25 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
What else might I adjust?
Fully optimize the system. Go double check again that is all done. Make sure disk cache is enabled (set to a size not "normal"). But expecting stability at lower latencies with some of these plugins may be optimistic. How much do you use track freeze to offload CPU load?

You are playing in an external MIDI keyboard? I can't recall if the old MIDI delay comp bugs got fixed or not in recent releases. Try disabling MIDI delay comp in preferences. (but I'm assuming that is not an issue if you can play say some VIs with no delay and others without (at the *same* buffer size).

Post a Sandra report and mark what each disk partition in the report is used for.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 04-23-2017 at 05:44 PM.
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  #6  
Old 04-24-2017, 04:52 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

The EW Play and Omnisphere engines are out and out cpu hogs. I've never had good luck running them at low buffer settings and my system ain't nothing to sneeze at. The Play engine can get really troublesome if using one of the libraries that has multiple mic positions. All that loading all samples in Play does is lessen the load on the sample drive during regular usage but it does, like you say, make it longer on loading/starting a session especially if you have more than a couple of Play instances in use. For instance in a session where I have 12 instances of Play running EWQLSO and load everything to ram I can walk out of the room and make a cup of Earl Grey and by the time I get back it may be done loading (I don't run an ssd as they don't come large & affordable enough for my needs - think 2 terabyte).
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  #7  
Old 04-24-2017, 05:28 AM
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DonaldM DonaldM is offline
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions all around. To answer the questions. I have 5 drives on my system. One is the OS, one for PT sessions, one for all my samples and a few of my voice libraries for some of the VI's like Nexus 2, Omnisphere, and others, one a catch all where I download most things to, and 1 external dedicated 1TB drive for the EW libraries (its a West Dig, Black, 1TB, 7200 etc etc) connected via USB3 to the system.

My system is optimized. I use track freeze often (or track commit) to free up resources.

This issues occurs with EW even if I only have 1 track, 1 instance of Play with 1 instrument. LIke Jack said, its those that have multiple samples and mic positions, like the pianos or any of the Hollywood orchestral series.

The one thing Darrel Ramm asked was about the disk cache setting. I've tried playing with that, but didn't notice any change. But his asking did make me wonder if there is a suggested setting that might be better than just the "normal" one?

I don't think MIDI delay comp has anything to do with it as I don't have the issue with most other VI's...its really JUST these 2, as far as I can tell.

So that's why my original question was is there some other trick I might try beyond all the obvious ones already mentioned, because in truth, I've done all that.

Jack - Just out of curiosity, what changes, if any, did you make for your settings with EW and/or Omnisphere in their respective settings screen?
__________________
"Rule number one in music is there are no rules in music! Rule number two is see rule number one!" Armin Van Buuren
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions
Dell XPS 435T/9000 Win-10 Pro 24gig RAM
IntelCore i7 CPU 920@2.67GHz
Pro Tools 12.7
Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
JBL LSR4326 Monitors
Yamaha Motif XS8
Reason 9.2
PTIEP 2.0
Spectrasonics Omnishpere 2.0
East West Libraries
Nexus2
Xfer Serum
Synapse Audio Dune 2
and 30+ other VI's of various sorts!
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2017, 06:11 AM
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DonaldM DonaldM is offline
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Fully optimize the system. Go double check again that is all done. Make sure disk cache is enabled (set to a size not "normal"). But expecting stability at lower latencies with some of these plugins may be optimistic. How much do you use track freeze to offload CPU load?

You are playing in an external MIDI keyboard? I can't recall if the old MIDI delay comp bugs got fixed or not in recent releases. Try disabling MIDI delay comp in preferences. (but I'm assuming that is not an issue if you can play say some VIs with no delay and others without (at the *same* buffer size).

Post a Sandra report and mark what each disk partition in the report is used for.
Here's the Sandra Report with notes on the drives:

SiSoftware Sandra

ID
Host Name : Motif2
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Computer
Model : Dell Studio XPS 435T/9000
Serial Number : GZK****
Chassis : Dell Desktop
Mainboard : Dell 0X501H
Serial Number : ..CN6970*********
BIOS : Dell A15 02/04/2010
Total Memory : 24GB DIMM DDR3

Processors
Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz (4C 8T 2.8GHz/2.93GHz, 2.13GHz IMC, 4x 256kB L2, 8MB L3)
Socket/Slot : FC LGA1366

Chipset
Memory Controller : Dell X58 I/O Hub 2x 2.4GHz (4.79GHz)
Memory Controller : Intel Core Desktop (Bloomfield) UnCore 2x 2.4GHz (4.79GHz), 3x 8GB DIMM DDR3 1GHz 192-bit

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module : Super Talent SUPERTALENT02 4GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 (11-11-11-29 5-40-13-6)
Memory Module : Super Talent SUPERTALENT02 4GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 (11-11-11-29 5-40-13-6)
Memory Module : Super Talent SUPERTALENT02 4GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 (11-11-11-29 5-40-13-6)
Memory Module : Super Talent SUPERTALENT02 4GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 (11-11-11-29 5-40-13-6)
Memory Module : Super Talent SUPERTALENT02 4GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 (11-11-11-29 5-40-13-6)
Memory Module : Super Talent SUPERTALENT02 4GB DIMM DDR3 PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 (11-11-11-29 5-40-13-6)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : Dell Computer DELL ST2410
(1920x1080, 24.0")
Monitor/Panel : Dell Computer DELL ST2410
(1920x1080, 24.0")
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (14CU 112SP SM4.0 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (14CU 112SP SM4.0 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)

Graphics Processor
OpenCL GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (112SP 14C 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit)
Compute Shader Processor : NVIDIA GeForce GTS 240 (112SP 14C 1.62GHz, 1GB DDR3 2.2GHz 256-bit)

Storage Devices
WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0 (1TB, SATA300/600, 3.5", 7200rpm) : 932GB (C:) [NOTE: This is my OS]
Seagate ST3750528AS (750.2GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm) : 699GB (D:)[NOTE: This is for PT Sessions, Reason Sessions and Reaper Sessions]
WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0 (1TB, SATA300/600, 3.5", 7200rpm) : 932GB (E:)[NOTE: This drive has all my sample libraries, voice libraries for some of my VI's like Omnisphere, Nexus 2, Serum and others]
WDC WD5000AAKS-75V0A0 (500.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, 16MB Cache) : 466GB (G:)[This is a catch all drive where I store files or download most things to]
WDC WD1003FZEX-00RLFA0 (1TB, USB3/SATA300/600, 3.5", 7200rpm) : 932GB (H:)[NOTE: This is my dedicated external drive for the East-West Libraries connected via USB-3]
WDC WD40EZRZ-00WN9B0 (4TB, USB3/SATA600, 3.5", 5400rpm) : 4TB (I:)
CodeMeter-Stick (41.2MB, USB1/NVMe) : 39MB (K:)[NOTE: This is my backup drive - a WD Mybook connected via USB-3]
PLDS DVD+/-RW DH-16AAS (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache) : N/A (F:)

Logical Storage Devices
RECOVERY : 11GB (NTFS, 4kB) @ WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0 (1TB, SATA300/600, 3.5", 7200rpm)
DATAPART1 (D:) : 699GB (NTFS, 4kB) @ Seagate ST3750528AS (750.2GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm)
1tb (E:) : 932GB (NTFS, 4kB) @ WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0 (1TB, SATA300/600, 3.5", 7200rpm)
New Volume (H:) : 932GB (NTFS, 4kB) @ WDC WD1003FZEX-00RLFA0 (1TB, USB3/SATA300/600, 3.5", 7200rpm)
Motif Backup (I:) : 4TB (NTFS, 4kB) @ WDC WD40EZRZ-00WN9B0 (4TB, USB3/SATA600, 3.5", 5400rpm)
CODEMETER (K:) : 39MB (FAT32, 512bytes) @ CodeMeter-Stick (41.2MB, USB1/NVMe)
OS (C:) : 921GB (NTFS, 4kB) @ WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0 (1TB, SATA300/600, 3.5", 7200rpm)
500gb (G:) : 466GB (NTFS, 4kB) @ WDC WD5000AAKS-75V0A0 (500.1GB, SATA300, 3.5", 7200rpm, 16MB Cache)
Hard Disk (Q:) : N/A
Optical Drive (F:) : N/A @ PLDS DVD+/-RW DH-16AAS (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 2MB Cache)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : Dell LPC Interface Controller
Audio Device : Dell HD Audio Controller
Audio Codec : Realtek Semi 888 High Definition Audio
Disk Controller : Dell 6 port SATA AHCI Controller
Disk Controller : Dell JMB36X PCIE-to-SATAII/IDE RAID Controller
USB Controller 1 : Dell USB UHCI Controller #4
USB Controller 2 : Dell USB UHCI Controller #5
USB Controller 3 : Dell USB UHCI Controller #6
USB Controller 4 : Dell USB EHCI Controller #2
USB Controller 5 : Dell USB UHCI Controller #1
USB Controller 6 : Dell USB UHCI Controller #2
USB Controller 7 : Dell USB UHCI Controller #3
USB Controller 8 : Dell USB EHCI Controller #1
FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : Dell IEEE 1394 Host Controller
SMBus/i2c Controller 1 : Intel ICH SMBus

Printers and Faxes
Printer : Microsoft XPS Document Writer (600x600, Colour)
Printer : HP Officejet Pro 8600 (600x600, Colour)
Printer : Fax - HP Officejet Pro 8600 (200x200, Colour)
Fax : Microsoft Shared Fax Driver (200x200)

Scanners and Cameras
Scanner : Hewlett-Packard HP Officejet Pro 8600 (NET) (Scanner, USB)

Network Services
Network Adapter : Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller (Ethernet)
Wireless Adapter : NETGEAR WNA1100 Wireless-N 150 USB Adapter (802.11n (HT), AES-CCMP, 65Mbps)

Operating System
Windows System : Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 6.01.7601 (Service Pack 1)
Platform Compliance : x64

Performance Enhancing Tips
Warning 2513 : TPM not detected. Some security features are unavailable.
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.
__________________
"Rule number one in music is there are no rules in music! Rule number two is see rule number one!" Armin Van Buuren
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions
Dell XPS 435T/9000 Win-10 Pro 24gig RAM
IntelCore i7 CPU 920@2.67GHz
Pro Tools 12.7
Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
JBL LSR4326 Monitors
Yamaha Motif XS8
Reason 9.2
PTIEP 2.0
Spectrasonics Omnishpere 2.0
East West Libraries
Nexus2
Xfer Serum
Synapse Audio Dune 2
and 30+ other VI's of various sorts!
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2017, 08:02 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
Jack - Just out of curiosity, what changes, if any, did you make for your settings with EW and/or Omnisphere in their respective settings screen?
Donald:
Attached are my settings for EW Play and Omnisphere. I don't remember exactly which I changed as it's been a while. These are all in standalone mode.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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Name:	Play 5 overload tab.jpg
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ID:	8414   Click image for larger version

Name:	Play 5 streaming tab.jpg
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Size:	52.2 KB
ID:	8415  
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  #10  
Old 04-24-2017, 08:34 AM
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DonaldM DonaldM is offline
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Default Re: H/W Buffer and Latency

Thanks, Jack. I don't use either in standalone mode as I'm always composing and laying down tracks. I tried hosting the VST versions of both EW and Omni in both Patchwork and Reaper. No difference.

So, I spent an hour fiddling with the ASIO buffer on my Focusrite Scarlett 8i6, with the H/W and the disk cache. The best I can get is 256 H/W on EW tested with the Gold Pianos, 2 mics, 4ms ASIO buffer and 8 gig disk cache. Anything lower and the latency is too much. Its still noticeable at 256, but since I'm not doing live performances, I can live with it. For Omnisphere, it varies depending on what I'm doing. With some Multis I can't go below 512 in the H/W without skips and breaks no matter how I adjust buffer and cache settings. I tried all sorts of combinations. For individual patches, I can usually get by at 256 for most, but NOT 128 or lower. It just won't work. Serum is kinda in the same ballpark as EW. Most of the time I can do it at 256 with nothing all that noticeable.

I guess I just have to live with it! I do have everything optimized on my system.

I am wondering if upgrading to Win-10 will have any effect? I need to do that anyways since Win-7 is no longer going to be supported by MS. I can't see anything that would be an issue going to Win-10 since all the music software is up to date and compatible with 10. I just wish I'd taken advantage of the free upgrade when they offered it. But at the time, I just wasn't ready to make the leap!
__________________
"Rule number one in music is there are no rules in music! Rule number two is see rule number one!" Armin Van Buuren
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions
Dell XPS 435T/9000 Win-10 Pro 24gig RAM
IntelCore i7 CPU 920@2.67GHz
Pro Tools 12.7
Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
JBL LSR4326 Monitors
Yamaha Motif XS8
Reason 9.2
PTIEP 2.0
Spectrasonics Omnishpere 2.0
East West Libraries
Nexus2
Xfer Serum
Synapse Audio Dune 2
and 30+ other VI's of various sorts!
Reply With Quote
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