Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > macOS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-18-2020, 10:28 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 19,136
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Guys tell me why are you so concerned about boot time? It's not like you need to shutdown every time you need to close your laptop lid... I mean, boot time tells absolutely nothing about storage speed. It only tells you how fast or slow your boot sequence is finishing.
Also tells you how fast your system drive is. I don't run a laptop and I don't leave my computer on 24/7 either. Combine that for when PT goes whackadoodle and you have to reboot you want a fast system drive.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:04 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 24,853
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
Also tells you how fast your system drive is. I don't run a laptop and I don't leave my computer on 24/7 either. Combine that for when PT goes whackadoodle and you have to reboot you want a fast system drive.
No it does not. It only tells how fast your hardware is interfacing with BIOS/EFI to get system loading.

To make my point, it can take 1sec on BIOS and 1min on system disk, or 30sec on BIOS and 1sec on system disk. Which system drive is faster as per boot time?
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:47 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 19,136
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
No it does not. It only tells how fast your hardware is interfacing with BIOS/EFI to get system loading.

To make my point, it can take 1sec on BIOS and 1min on system disk, or 30sec on BIOS and 1sec on system disk. Which system drive is faster as per boot time?
I'm just saying what I had happen here. When I got this Mac Pro it had a 7200 rpm spinner for system drive. Swapped that out for an ssd in a drive bay. Boot times went down considerably. Same efi setup. A lot of it is in how fast a drive can spit out data. Then I put that ssd on a pcie card and boot times went down again. The only limit is in how fast the computer buss can run.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:55 AM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,103
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Guys tell me why are you so concerned about boot time? It's not like you need to shutdown every time you need to close your laptop lid... I mean, boot time tells absolutely nothing about storage speed. It only tells you how fast or slow your boot sequence is finishing.
I never claimed that boot time tells something about storage speed. Actually a simple 2.5 SSD sitting in one of the SATA drive bays in a classic Mac Pro (4,1 / 5,1) gives you full boot speed, it will not go any faster than that, not even with a very fast NVMe M.2 SSD sitting on a PCIe card, been there done that.
Data reads writes are a different story but we are not talking about that.

I must confess that I no longer use AHCI SSDs which perform better in a classic Mac Pro but there are no decent sizes available at decent prices, thus NVMe it is.

So, to go back to what I actually complained about is that all my Macs (also the iMacs) boot much slower when the startup drive is APFS formatted, and I do not mean just a few seconds longer but it sometimes takes minutes, up to 5!!

Maybe APFS is developed for and designed for the all new and current Macs in mind. I will not own any of those until Apple comes up with reasonable pricing again.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:57 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 24,853
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver M View Post
I do not mean just a few seconds longer but it sometimes takes minutes, up to 5!!
That doesn't sound right. Can anyone with classsic cheesegrater and APFS chime in please?
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:25 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Sopranos State (NJ)
Posts: 19,136
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver M View Post
I never claimed that boot time tells something about storage speed. Actually a simple 2.5 SSD sitting in one of the SATA drive bays in a classic Mac Pro (4,1 / 5,1) gives you full boot speed, it will not go any faster than that, not even with a very fast NVMe M.2 SSD sitting on a PCIe card, been there done that.
Data reads writes are a different story but we are not talking about that.

I must confess that I no longer use AHCI SSDs which perform better in a classic Mac Pro but there are no decent sizes available at decent prices, thus NVMe it is.

So, to go back to what I actually complained about is that all my Macs (also the iMacs) boot much slower when the startup drive is APFS formatted, and I do not mean just a few seconds longer but it sometimes takes minutes, up to 5!!

Maybe APFS is developed for and designed for the all new and current Macs in mind. I will not own any of those until Apple comes up with reasonable pricing again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
That doesn't sound right. Can anyone with classsic cheesegrater and APFS chime in please?
Oliver has other problems going on if he's seeing 5 minute boot times with an APFS formatted drive in a 5,1 cheesegrater whether it's in a drive bay or on a pcie adapter card. With the system that's in my profile I'm seeing at most a 45 second time to a usable desktop from pushing the power button and 15 seconds from the startup pong. That's on a cold start; a warm reboot is faster than that. Garden variety Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB ssd on a pcie adapter card from OWC. Formatted APFS. I have no doubt if I had an nvme system drive it'd be even faster than that.


An ssd in a drive bay will NOT give you the fastest boot speed possible. It's barely running half the speed than if it were on an adapter card in a pcie slot. I wish Darryll Ramm would chime in here. But it's no use arguing with Oliver - been down that road before and it always ends up badly.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:17 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,103
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post
But it's no use arguing with Oliver - been down that road before and it always ends up badly.
Why are you posting such bad comments?
Only because we disagreed in the past?

You show no respect sir.

Other than this I have investigated all this. I always do before I post on certain subjects, you know. It seems to me that everytime I post something you jump on it and attack me. What triggers this?

I was actually going to share more info about this very subject as I tried some 10-20 AHCI and NVMe drives, half a dozen of PCIe cards to host them and all combinations of them.
But since you are the expert, I leave it up to you to solve my problem. 😉
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-24-2020, 06:23 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,103
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicman691 View Post

An ssd in a drive bay will NOT give you the fastest boot speed possible.
You obviously never measured it.
A simple SSD in any of the drive bays boots up as fast as the fastest PCIe SSD on an AMFELTEC SQUID Gen2 (S KU-086-01) PCIe Carrier Board (x16/F), I am using one of those with 4 M.2 SSDs.
Been there, done this.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-24-2020, 07:18 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,511
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

There are many threads all over the Web about slow boot issues with APFS, and how to address that, including fixes from Apple in later Mojave versions.

What is going on during all this time? What do logs show? What known fixes have you tried?

Slow initialization/POST is a separate issue, presumably you know this is really an APFS issue.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-25-2020, 02:16 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
That doesn't sound right. Can anyone with classsic cheesegrater and APFS chime in please?
Hi,

my system drive is an SSD and my audio/video drives are encrypted APFS spinner drives. (more unintentionally as I didn't pay attention when re-formatting them freshly and just focused on the encryption). I have found no difference in my rig's behaviour whatsoever. Been running massive film post projects on it. Usually maxed out voice count and ten thousands of clips on board.

Frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2024.3 (OSX13.6.5), 8x8x8, MacPro 14,8, AJA LHi, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 64GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Journaled or Extended... delaplanemusic Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 5 04-14-2008 01:35 AM
Journaled Drive SteveGarman Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 4 12-05-2006 01:47 AM
EXTENDED Vs JOURNALED HD FORMATS Dual Mackie Storage Subsystems 3 02-25-2005 04:41 PM
Mac OsX Extended Journaled Problem Luis Miguel Storage Subsystems 4 11-03-2004 07:21 AM
Format Extended or Extended Journaled for PT6.2.3? AAR Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 02-06-2004 07:46 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com