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  #1  
Old 01-19-2009, 09:31 PM
The Zone The Zone is offline
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Unhappy I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! Still haven't figured out individual headphone amp sends! HELP!

Hello all- I have struggled to figure out what to do in the situation I am constantly at odds with yet I get almost NOBODY to chime in on how they handle this problem. This has GOT TO BE an issue for many of the hundreds of other project studio people that post on the DUC.

Say for example, I've got 4 people in my studio. They are a bluegrass band and each man has a microphone in front of him. No amps, no pods, no electronic drums, just four guys in a room with headphones on from a Furman headphone distributing amp. They are isolated from each other by plexiglass baffles, and nothing more.

I would like to allow each of these people the opportunity to utilize the four individual MONO channels on each headphone box to create their own mix, for performance's sake.

HOW IN THE WORLD do I get four separate signals OUT OF THE C24 as four separate MONO signals, to feed the Furman headphone amp's four separate outputs??? (they already are hearing the stereo mix, that is not a problem)

I have asked and asked and ASKED but never has this been addressed. I have used Pro Tools for ten years . . . I've owned a Digi 001, a Digi 002, a Digi 003 WITH the C24 and even use a Digi 002 Console for doing "in the field" live work . . . I have been VERY supportive of this company in every way that I can be . . . somebody PLEASE offer a feasible solution.

Even if the answer is "You are going to have to buy something in ADDITION to what you are currently using", that would still be better than nothing.

I have tried utilizing the outputs on the Digi 003 itself, and subbing out on the individual Pro Tools channels but it feeds the headphone lines the signal with latency, rendering it useless for being useful while the band is playing together.

As I always say, I appreicate any help I can get with this problem. -J
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:40 AM
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nate9 nate9 is offline
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Default Re: I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! Still haven't figured out individual headphone amp sends! H

Hey Zone,

I use the aux ins and outs on the back of the control24 to my headphone distributor and take a d-sub cable from the outs on my 002 to the pro tools sources in on my control24, create an aux track and make the input bus 1 and 2, output analog 3 and 4, then create a stereo send bus 1 and 2 on each channel I want to monitor. I use the mon to aux button on the control24 to monitor the cue using the pro tools sources 1 & 2, 3 & 4, (the lower gray box at the far right in the monitor section) to switch between my main outs 1 and 2 to 3 and 4 to monitor the main output of my cue/aux tracks. You could then respectively create 3 more aux tracks label inputs 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 7 and 8, output analog 3 and 4 until you have 4 aux tracks utilizing busses 1-8 to create 4 distinct cue mixes. Then create a stereo send/bus 1 and 2 , 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 7 and 8 on each audio track. Remember to set the stereo sends on each audio track to pre fader sends.

thought it might help
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:31 AM
The Zone The Zone is offline
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Default Re: I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! Still haven't figured out individual headphone amp sends! H

I'm probably going to have to read that ten more times before I totally comprehend what you just said, but it sounds like it might work, as I have found no other way to do it.

That said, could you be kind enough to tell me what a "D-Sub cable" is? I have heard the term before but I have never used one before. Is this a unique type of cable? I'm going to look it up, but I wanted to go ahead and ask, just so I can get the ball rolling, so to speak.

Thanks . . . I've got some cable-ing to do.

-J
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Mac Pro running OSX 10.5.6, using Pro Tools LE 7.4.2/Digi 003/Digi C24 w-DV Toolkit 2, a pair of Avalon 737 VT-737sp's, Great River MP-2NV, RME OctaMic II, pair of Mackie HR-824's, my best mics? a Neumann U87 and a Royer R-121 . . . best amps? Bogner Ecstasy 101B and a Bogner Uberschall-Revision Blue . . . All my drums are BFD2 triggered by Roland TD-20s kit, with live Zildjian cymbals, Korg Triton LE 88 with weighted keys . . . lots of other toys that make beautiful music . . .
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! Still haven't figured out individual headphone amp sends! H

the d-sub cable would be...it kinda looks like a computer monitor cable on

one end on the other you would have say 8 1/4 inch connectors that would

go into your 003 outputs and then from your outs to your pro tools sources

input on the back of your control24.

they run about 50 bucks for a 6 footer

I apologize for the mass confusion

1. create a pre fader send on an audio track ( bus 1 and 2 or which ever you so desire)
2. create an aux track
3. set the aux track input to the bus that you just created on your audio track
4. set the output of your aux track to your pro tools outs 3 and 4 (or which ever outputs you want to monitor your cue mix)

Another thing you can do is once that's established import

some music into your session if you don't already and sit and mess with different situations.

routing and so on....

you may not need a d-sub if you have talk back features on your furman

try connecting your furman to your aux ins and outs

on your control24 then instantiate your Mon to Aux on the control24

you should be able to hear your cue from there.

Last edited by nate9; 01-20-2009 at 06:42 AM. Reason: wanted to explain it a little more
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:30 AM
The Zone The Zone is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Frustrated

Okay . . . my first problem, discovered upon looking at the back of the C24 is that we have two different consoles and I do not see anything marked "aux ins" or "aux outs". I am very concerned that Digi has done away with this option in favor of "surround sound", which would definitely mean that I bought the wrong machine for what I do.

I have no idea how a company can IGNORE my repeated requests for assistance with a problem after all my years of preaching how great Pro Tools is. I do realize that I have worked in a certain degree of "isolation", which sometimes causes me to not "know everything about the in's and out's of Pro Tools" but I am slowly moving towards Ebay and Craig's List with the C24 console.

It's sickening.
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2009, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Frustrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zone View Post
I have no idea how a company can IGNORE my repeated requests for assistance with a problem after all my years of preaching how great Pro Tools is. I do realize that I have worked in a certain degree of "isolation", which sometimes causes me to not "know everything about the in's and out's of Pro Tools" but I am slowly moving towards Ebay and Craig's List with the C24 console.

It's sickening.

We're not ignoring you - we just don't see every thread that's posted here on the DUC. In the future, if you definitely need assistance from a Digi employee, please use the Tech Support Request Form.

Now, as far as your problem, I can help but I need to know a few things:

1. Is this a C|24 or a Control|24?
2. How do you have it cabled to the 003 - be specific!
3. Which model headphone amp are you using?

I'm assuming you're sending them a stereo mix and that you want to have each of them get a feed from each of the other instruments to their headphone amp where they can then make their own mix of any of the other instruments - correct?

I'm going to jump the gun a bit and give you what I think will likely work - we can modify it once I know more about your system, if needed.

For each track in Pro Tools click on it's output while holding ctrl+option and select an additional mono output. For example, you would create a track in Pro Tools and set it's input to the input you want to record from (say banjo), the output should already be Analog 1/2 or whatever your default is. Now hold ctrl+option and select Analog 3. You will now have that instrument going to the stereo outputs of the 003, as well as an additional mono output that can be fed to your headphone amps (you may need a distribution amp or other splitter). Repeat for the next instrument, but this time choose the next additional analog output - Analog 4. Once you've done this for all 4 instruments, you should not have 4 analog mono outputs:

Banjo - Analog 3
Mandolin - Analog 4
Fiddle - Analog 5
Dobro - Analog 6

Use those outputs from the 003 to feed your headphone amps.

A few things to note:

1. You'll only hear sound when the track is record enabled.
2. You do not have volume control for the output from Pro Tools

If your situation requires another method of doing this, there are several other ways - once I know more about your situation we can tailor it a bit more.
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  #7  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:43 AM
The Zone The Zone is offline
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Default Re: Frustrated . . . but maybe not for long!

I will do my very best to answer your questions to the best of my ability, in the order that you asked them. I am very VERY happy to have recieved this kind of response, it's hard to properly express it.

1. I am using the C|24 (with a Digi 003)
2. My cable inputs/outputs are as follows:

I have several microphone pre-amps connected to the back of the C|24 via the Digi-provided "Line In/DI In snake". I also have the "Mic In 1-8" snake connected to several Radial JDI boxes, should I need them.

My "Line Out 1-8" snake is connected to the back of the Digi 003, 1 thru 8 inputs, just as you might expect.

My "Control Room Out" snake is sending sound out to the 2 main control room monitors. I utilize the "Cue Out" snake with 1-2 going to the Furman HDS-6 headphone amp, as the main L-R. I also utilize #5 on this snake for talkback, which is connected to one of the four mono outputs on the Furman. (leaving 3 mono audio inputs on the Furman at the moment, but you may have a more suitable idea for how my musicians can recieve "talkback" audio)

I also utilize an RME Octamic II 8 channel Preamp that is connected to the Digi 003 via the ADAT optical input. That probably has little to do with the problem at hand, as I would expect that any signal can be routed to any output, provided you are able to solve my dillema, which it sounds like you are doing.

For the record, my "Pro Tools In" snake is connected to the Main/Alt "Monitor" outputs on the Digi 003.

Hopefully this is specific enough. Feel free to demand further detail if need be. I am excited, so I may be leaving out a detail or two.

Your assumption that I am currently sending the band as a whole, the stereo mix but would like to send them the four separate instrument signals is Exactly Correct.

While I await another response, I will attempt to do what you suggested to achieve the goal. You may already have it worked out, but I will have to "master" this approach, as it is a frequent problem and I must be able to apply it to any situation. I will check back in a little while and see if my current connection-choices are part of my problem.

Again, I am so thankful for assistance with this. To hear a legitimate suggestion as to what I should do is, pardon the pun, "music to my ears" . . . now I just gotta get music to their ears, and I'm all set.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:46 PM
The Zone The Zone is offline
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Default Re: I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! Still haven't figured out individual headphone amp sends! H

After trying your initial suggestion, I am not getting signal from the individual 4 mono "volume knobs" on the Furman's "headphone remote mixing station" but I am in the midst of making sure that it's not a faulty cable of some sort.

I am wondering if I need to "enable" the extra outputs on the 003's back . . . I figure if I didn't know the "control+option" move after ten years of Pro Tools, just about anything is possible.

At the moment, I am seeing how you can seemingly add as many additional outputs as you'd like with the output "button" in Pro Tools, but thus far I'm getting no results. Could it be a pre/post fader issue? I will experiment.

-J
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!! Still haven't figured out individual headphone amp sends! H

Start with your I/O setup page(open protools but you don't need to open a session). Make sure that all the output paths are available, or add them. I would make sure you have (in addition to the main outs) 4 mono paths assigned to outputs 3,4,5 & 6 (label them Furman 1, Furman 2, etc). I would even add a stereo output on 7&8 just in case(always looking forward). Now that you have that setup, patch the outputs of the 003 (3 thru 6) into your furman master box(remember the 003 outputs are balanced so use the proper cable for whatever the Furman inputs need). In your sessions, add the 4 aux sends and choose the 4 you labeled as Furman 1,2,3,4 and set them all to Pre-fade. Turn up the proper send on the proper track and it should work. If it doesn't, it may be worth paying a savvy tech to spend a few hours troubleshooting your system.

BTW, if the Furman setup is the system that uses ethernet cables, make sure you are following the patch method as described in their manual as it is not very intuitive(to me anyway).
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:30 AM
The Zone The Zone is offline
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Default Re: FRUSTRATED

Upon attempting to hook things up very similar to what you described, I was getting absolutely no signal from any of the four Furman mono lines.

I typically run audio from a set of V Drums to one of the Furman's channels, and occasionally I'll DI out to a Bass Pod so the bass player can turn himself up if need be, so I'm sure the Furman is not the problem, as in, it does function the way I think it does. (this is accomplished, by the way, with a standard 1/4" guitar cable, so I am fairly certain that the Furman's 4 mono inputs don't require a "balanced" input)

Which brings me to my only possible variable, which is Pro Tools and the 003. (I'm not in the studio, so I'm "brainstorming" at the kitchen table, based upon what I know I already tried).

Variable #1 is that I used a "regular old 8 channel snake" with 1/4" connections on both sides.... it is most likely the culprit, as we're probably not getting balanced inputs from it. (Just so I'm not completely ridiculously stupid, for the record, when you say "balanced" we're talking 1/4" cable with that T/R/S or stereo end on it, correct? Sorry . . . I just don't deal with this side of it much, but I'm learning) I would bet that THAT is why I'm not getting signal from the back of the 003. I might need to buy cables.

By the way, if it IS the kind of cable I'm thinking, can I just pull them out of the 003 "half way" in order to hear signal? Again, I'm learning.

Also, for the record, how do I set the four output sends to "pre-fader"? I know what you mean by that, but I feel like I've only noticed controls for metering . . . I will figure it out once I get down there, if need be.

I have noticed that alot of my difficulty in dealing with Pro Tools and/or my new console is that "it's not what I don't HAVE, it's what I don't KNOW!!" so thank you for trying to educate me. It is much appreciated and you are assisting me in assisting many others as well.
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