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  #1131  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:01 PM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by RobertDorn View Post
Let’s hope the new seamless playback feature in PT2019 also has a tweak or 2 on the entire playback engine when it comes to efficient CPU usage.
But seeing is believing of course:)
Amen to that. Without a revamped approach to CPU usage, the new 2019.5 will be dead in the water for me.
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  #1132  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:05 PM
RobertDorn RobertDorn is offline
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Default Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
Absolutely it can't.


Well I’m on an iMac Pro 10-core too. (Though, with 128Gig of ram) I cant complain about the amount of dropouts I get, even with high VI counts

However, I freeze them anyhow because when I start to use plugins with high sample delays like FabFilter pro-Mb or soundradix drumleveler, all VI’s using arpeggio loops and/or having sidechain plugins on the insert fall out of sync like craaaazyyy. So perhaps AVID could look into a fix or 2 on the ADC for midi as well


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  #1133  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:07 PM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by RobertDorn View Post
Well I’m on an iMac Pro 10-core too. (Though, with 128Gig of ram) I cant complain about the amount of dropouts I get, even with high VI counts

However, I freeze them anyhow because when I start to use plugins with high sample delays like FabFilter pro-Mb or soundradix drumleveler, all VI’s using arpeggio loops and/or having sidechain plugins on the insert fall out sync like craaaazyyy. So perhaps AVID can look into a fix or 2 on the ADC for midi as well


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Freezing works, but it is a nightmare when you have tons of VIs and need to make a change to the whole track. You have to unfreeze everything and then refreeze even for the slightest change. Huge pain in the ass. You don't have that issue with Logic Pro because it can handle a huge VI mix without freezing anything. But you still have the option to freeze if you need it.

By the way, 128 Gigs of Ram is killer!
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  #1134  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:14 PM
RobertDorn RobertDorn is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
Freezing works, but it is a nightmare when you have tons of VIs and need to make a change to the whole track. You have to unfreeze everything and then refreeze even for the slightest change. Huge pain in the ass. You don't have that issue with Logic Pro because it can handle a huge VI mix without freezing anything. But you still have the option to freeze if you need it.


It definitely breaks a quick and intuitive workflow. And in logic midi doesn’t fall apart when using plugins causing high sample delay.

But like you said, mixing and editing in logic is like making a spreadsheet in Word


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  #1135  
Old 04-24-2019, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by Meads View Post
Where's that puke emoji when you need it?
The DUC seems to have become a pretty wild place with all sorts of weird and issue ridden roamers. Fitting clientel to the cancerous mothership that is Avid.
Sorry I have taken so long to reply (maybe I should work for Avid )
But I had to do something really important an take a load of trash to the dump
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  #1136  
Old 04-24-2019, 04:25 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
I don't know if the new converters that UA offer in their new Apollo lineup are that much better or noticeable from the original silver Apollo, but the reviews seem to imply that there is a significant and noticeable difference. Is 133 db vs 118 db of dynamic range audibly noticeable? Again, I don't know. UA seems to tout this as a significant upgrade along with dual-crystal clocking. I would love to be able to get an A/B test, perhaps there are some on youtube that I can check out and hear for myself. I would love to think that my silver Apollo's converters and clocking are still in the same league. Paying for a new interface every few years doesn't make economical sense. But if the difference is worth it, I might take the plunge. I'm happy with my Omni as it stands. I think the converters are good...same specs as the silver apollos. The real issue for me is I don't use outboard gear so the software issues that Pro Tools have is the main issue for me and why I switched back to Logic Pro. Logic Pro's mixing and editing interface is nowhere close to as precise and elegant as Pro Tools which is why I am really hoping 2019.5 addresses the CPU issue.

A MTRX doesn't make sense for home recording artists. It is way overkill for what we would need. That is why an upgraded Omni would be the way to go for the home recording market. I don't think that is too much to ask from Avid. Interesting point is, their MTRX isn't even made by Avid, but rather Digital Audio Denmark. So again, what is Avid doing? Are they outsourcing their hardware department? Have they downsized to the point where they can't even make their own hardware anymore? They seem to be struggling to just try and keep up with their software which seems to be lagging further and further behind the competition.

A pro studio wouldn't have this issue because they probably already upgraded to a MTRX and use mostly outboard gear and effects. VIs aren't an issue if you don't use them. Pro Studios record mostly live instruments so being able to run a VI equivalent of a symphony orchestra wouldn't apply. But for those that don't track live orchestras, VIs are the only way we can get it. I think Avid should at least strive to offer the ability to run VIs to the point where the computer becomes the weakest link not the software. I didn't spend $10,000 on a new iMac Pro to be artificially limited in VI counts due to Pro Tools inability to use the 10 cores and 64 gig of ram. Logic Pro was optimized to use the latest iMac Pros and runs VIs very efficiently. Why can't Pro Tools do this? I've said this before, but for Pro Tools to truly be the best DAW out there for everyone (not just Pros using outboard gear tracking live instruments) they need to address this and sooner than later. Over the last 10 years I've been using Pro Tools, they have never even closed the gap regarding VI usage and CPU efficiency. Someone at Avid should've made this a priority. As it stands almost every other DAW can run VIs much more efficiently. The new feature that Avid is touting that doubles the midi count is meaningless if the software can't tap into a computer's native resources.

As far as the Wiggles using an SC48 for FOH, that seems reasonable. I've been to a wiggles concert and their shows are really geared for kids and the live aspect of it....almost circus like with all the acrobatics etc. Their fanbase aren't audiophiles.
Ha! Their fanbase certainly aren't audiophiles, but I don't think that undermines the skill of their FOH engineer. Or even the quality of the SC48. Those things are still being used everywhere, from venues, to tours and festivals. Particularly festivals, it always seems like there are two options for FOH. One of them being a Digidesign desk. Sydney's Oxford Art Factory still has one running FOH too.

Audiophile is probably a pretty accurate description for what is going on in some parts of the internet regarding converter quality and the desire for the best. It is becoming more and more akin to $300 specialty 'audiophile' IEC power cables, or gold-plated fuses, or $1000 speaker cables. Expensive stuff that is better on paper, but may well have less affect on the actual quality of sound than any given individual's morning caffeine intake. Maybe I am just getting older and more tired. Haha. Or perhaps I am just happy with my Omni. I do like it a lot.

I don't think it's been any real secret what happened to Avid. At one point in time they owned countless manufacturers in the industry, but it all blew up in their face. The Pro Tools LE line of interfaces was one of the first that they threw under the bus, and they tried for a brief while to compensate for it by rebranding Apogee interfaces and selling them as their own. I would absolutely love to see Avid release something like a 1RU rack mount interface with built in HDX capabilities. But will it ever actually happen? I personally doubt it. With the exception of the Avid Dock, the cheapest product that they have released in the last 5 or 6 years costs $4,999. It's almost as though they may have learnt a lesson from their poor attempts to do business in the home studio market.

I'm not at all fussed by Avid's involvement with DAD. They are right up there as one of the best in the industry. I reckon Avid should pursue more alliances with other companies that are at the top of their game. That is one way Avid have always really improved Pro Tools. The music notation part of it came from buying Sibelius. Eucon came from purchasing Euphonix. The Space plugin came from purchasing TL Labs. The Air plugins and instruments came from purchasing Wazoo. The BF plugins came from purchasing Bombfactory. That has been the Pro Tools way for decades. I'd love it if Avid sided with Izotope, or Native Instruments, or other software developers at the top of their game if it meant better tools for Pro Tools users.

Haven't Avid always been playing catch up with other DAWS when it comes to the home studio market? They certainly still know how to make hardware, and it is particularly 'serious' hardware for a company that isn't 'serious'. I'll leave some pictures for inspiration. I do think it speaks very strongly (unfortunately) for where Avid's priorities lay now and probably into the future...



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Last edited by LDS; 04-25-2019 at 06:39 AM.
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  #1137  
Old 04-24-2019, 04:46 PM
jasonkalman jasonkalman is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

LDS,
thanks for your informative reply. For me anyway, it is important to learn what I can about what is going on behind the scenes that has crippled Avid from making Pro Tools the best software in the business. I truly believe it could be with the right people in charge. I am at a crossroads with whether to stay in the Avid ecosystem or get off it while the gear still has some value on the resale market.

I've often thought Avid should've purchased Waves and maybe even Universal Audio. But I'm not sure they could afford it. If they could pull it off financially, that would allow them to instantly dominate the audio software, hardware, plugin, home recording and Pro market. The negative to this would be less competition and steeper prices I imagine. Not to mention would they run these companies into the ground after acquiring them?

Thanks for the pictures also. From this I can infer that Avid is focusing their resources for the Pro market, which isn't a bad strategy since there aren't too many companies competing in this market. Reason is, the Pro market is shrinking by the day. The only saving grace is the audio arena that is producing music for TV and movies. I think that area is actually growing with all the content out there. Gone are the days of a few major broadcast networks making shows. Now you have Netflix, Amazon Prime, CBS and a whole growing host of online content service providers. This growing area will inevitably need pro audio for their shows, so perhaps Avid realizing this, is trying to tap into being the dominant player in that market. The sense I get is that most of the pros using Avid and making decent money are working TV shows and movies. Perhaps the home studio artist, like me needs to rethink which DAW and interface to stick with for the long haul.
Thanks again!
Jason
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Last edited by jasonkalman; 04-24-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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  #1138  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by Meads View Post
But what's the point of that argument?
My grandpa is happily using my old Pentium 3 computer. Doesn't mean that this is a viable tool to work with for everyone and above all it doesn't justify paying Avid a yearly fee for basically nothing in return.
I mean, this has been discussed ad nauseam so I won't get into all of that again.
Price policy apart, In a business where client are looking for stability and assurance that their paying time in studio will not be fraught with loss of time on crashes, one is best not to be on the breaking edge of technology if their system is rock solid. We may all be vexed by the Pricing policy Avid and other companies have embraced, the sole responsibility of compatibility and stability remains on you (the professional who are offering their services for money). Jumping on every OS release is the best way to make sure that you will not be able to offer a stable system to your clients.
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  #1139  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:42 PM
LDS LDS is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
LDS,
thanks for your informative reply. For me anyway, it is important to learn what I can about what is going on behind the scenes that has crippled Avid from making Pro Tools the best software in the business. I truly believe it could be with the right people in charge. I am at a crossroads with whether to stay in the Avid ecosystem or get off it while the gear still has some value on the resale market.

I've often thought Avid should've purchased Waves and maybe even Universal Audio. But I'm not sure they could afford it. If they could pull it off financially, that would allow them to instantly dominate the audio software, hardware, plugin, home recording and Pro market. The negative to this would be less competition and steeper prices I imagine. Not to mention would they run these companies into the ground after acquiring them?

Thanks for the pictures also. From this I can infer that Avid is focusing their resources for the Pro market, which isn't a bad strategy since there aren't too many companies competing in this market. Reason is, the Pro market is shrinking by the day. The only saving grace is the audio arena that is producing music for TV and movies. I think that area is actually growing with all the content out there. Gone are the days of a few major broadcast networks making shows. Now you have Netflix, Amazon Prime, CBS and a whole growing host of online content service providers. This growing area will inevitably need pro audio for their shows, so perhaps Avid realizing this, is trying to tap into being the dominant player in that market. The sense I get is that most of the pros using Avid and making decent money are working TV shows and movies. Perhaps the home studio artist, like me needs to rethink which DAW and interface to stick with for the long haul.
Thanks again!
Jason

My pleasure. I, too, think the amount of content being generated within the 'post' market is increasing. Streaming platforms, VR & 360 stuff, podcasts, on demand, immersive formats. The same also applies with live concerts & theatre. Some of the stuff D&B and other audio companies are doing with sound design and immersive platforms is incredible. It's an interesting contrast compared to sound for music production. Music has had the heck theorised out of it over the years, to the point where perhaps very few stones have been left unturned. Sound for picture on the other hand very much exists on the fringes, barely garnering a mention in film studies lectures, and when it gets mentioned it runs a distant second fiddle to the pictures. I suppose it's that kind of marginalisation that really brings freedom to experiment.

5.1 never really massively took off in music-only production. It fact, it went backwards to MP3. Meanwhile, film sound has moved to object orientated applications and people are now throwing another 4 channels of audio onto the ceiling in addition to the 8 channels that already. Post is a far more innovation rich part of the pro audio, I think. Check out, for example, D&B soundscape if you are bored. Exciting times. The stuff happening in music production like vintage compressor emulations, or vintage modelled microphones, or large touch screens seems pretty dull by comparison.

At the end of the day, I don't think anyone here wants to see Avid do poorly. Nor has the prospect of paying a lot for very little really hasn't been lost on anyone. Some people have just reconciled their position a little quicker than others, probably by asking themselves the question of what am I going to do about it? If you haven't tried rolling back PT versions and viciously testing plugins for stability issues, I would give that a spin. I am always impressed with Reaper when I fire it up too. Check it out if you get a chance. It might float your boat. Best of luck!
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  #1140  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:46 PM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools 2019 !

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Originally Posted by jasonkalman View Post
From this I can infer that Avid is focusing their resources for the Pro market, which isn't a bad strategy since there aren't too many companies competing in this market. Reason is, the Pro market is shrinking by the day.
There's lots of competition in the "Pro" market. Yamaha, Digico, Soundcraft, Midas, Studer, Allen and Heath, SSL, StageTec, Calrec, AMS/Neve, Rupert Neve, Meyer Sound, and others all build recording, broadcast, live sound and control surfaces for Protools (and other DAWs) at the same price point, or higher, than the S6, S6L, and S3 surfaces.

What there ISN'T is competition in the home and project studio markets. Other than the Artist Mix, Presonus Studio Faderport, and Behringer X-Touch, there's basically no control surfaces that are affordable for the home and small studio market. And forget trying to find a decent real console for that market that isn't used or 20+ years old. (I have a 48 channel Soundtracs Quartz for sale if anyone is interested). And forget trying to find a current product that will work as BOTH a live sound console and a control surface for Protools. I have a Yamaha DM2000 that I will be using once I sell the Soundtracs console and free up that space in my remote truck. (I also have an Artist Mix).

The Pro market isn't about less competition, it's about better margins than the home and project studio market.
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