Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:04 PM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by tilman View Post
other workaround would be some 3 CH panorama plugin by a third party developer
For example? Don´t know any.

Thanks,

Frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2024.3 (OSX13.6.5), 8x8x8, MacPro 14,8, AJA LHi, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 64GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:04 PM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman View Post
Adding extra break points makes a HUGE imporovement. I'll post some screenshots and come back here with a link.
I´ll try that tomorrow.

Frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2024.3 (OSX13.6.5), 8x8x8, MacPro 14,8, AJA LHi, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 64GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:27 PM
Postman Postman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: where land meets sky
Posts: 2,375
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

Here's a link. I used a 20kHz sinetone and recorded it through a surround panner to a stereo track. The waveforms show the automation steps with different amounts of breakpoints. I did an arbitrary 8 frame region for this snapshot. I hope the image resolution is clear enough.

http://www.pharoahaudio.com/pannerautotest.html
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman View Post
Here's a link. I used a 20kHz sinetone and recorded it through a surround panner to a stereo track. The waveforms show the automation steps with different amounts of breakpoints. I did an arbitrary 8 frame region for this snapshot. I hope the image resolution is clear enough.

http://www.pharoahaudio.com/pannerautotest.html
Hey, that´s a great yet weird find! Thanks a lot for this.

Now Digi just has to put in an "un-thin automation" function

Is there a trick to quickly put in more breakpoints on a given line? Or did you manually pencil them in one by one?

Thanks again!

Frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2024.3 (OSX13.6.5), 8x8x8, MacPro 14,8, AJA LHi, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 64GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:43 PM
Postman Postman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: where land meets sky
Posts: 2,375
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

I used the grabber. No, it isn't quick, but at least with the grabber you don't have to be super precise, just click somewhere near the line and a point is placed without causing a new bend. I like to get the pan length right and then add the smoothing inbetween points. Usually, though, I don't care enough to bother, mixing mostly tv crud here.

Who is this "Digi" person you speak of? :|
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-16-2010, 01:36 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

So, the lesson to be learned here is to set PT automatic automation thinning to none.

Frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2024.3 (OSX13.6.5), 8x8x8, MacPro 14,8, AJA LHi, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 64GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-16-2010, 04:40 AM
Postman Postman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: where land meets sky
Posts: 2,375
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

Quote:
So, the lesson to be learned here is to set PT automatic automation thinning to none.
Maybe but that preference only operates on the automation that was just recorded, doesn't it? I have to draw fast moves anyway, which it doesn't touch. Besides, I get uncomfortable when the session file size gets upwards of 60mb. The auto save and undo/redo behaviors start getting in the way on my (old and slow) system. The last thing has nothing to do with the amount of RAM, of which I have far more than the Mac uses. I've had to lower undo's from 32 to 4 while conforming big session files, just to keep the software from freezing up.

The shape of those curves without extra automation breakpoints is very curious, looks like some kind of buggy byproduct of the automation interpolation routines. They are not stairstepped, as I had expected based on what it sounds like. There is obviously some kind of realtime interpolation working, it just isn't doing ideal calculations for a panner and there appears to be unequal "give and take" between channels, which probably contributes to the uneven sound of fast panner moves. It makes me wonder what exactly is happening during other fast parameter moves. Nah, I don't really want to find out.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-16-2010, 05:12 AM
tigas tigas is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 150
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness



Nice demonstration, Postman!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:36 AM
tilman tilman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 179
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman View Post
Maybe but that preference only operates on the automation that was just recorded, doesn't it? I have to draw fast moves anyway, which it doesn't touch. Besides, I get uncomfortable when the session file size gets upwards of 60mb. The auto save and undo/redo behaviors start getting in the way on my (old and slow) system. The last thing has nothing to do with the amount of RAM, of which I have far more than the Mac uses. I've had to lower undo's from 32 to 4 while conforming big session files, just to keep the software from freezing up.

The shape of those curves without extra automation breakpoints is very curious, looks like some kind of buggy byproduct of the automation interpolation routines. They are not stairstepped, as I had expected based on what it sounds like. There is obviously some kind of realtime interpolation working, it just isn't doing ideal calculations for a panner and there appears to be unequal "give and take" between channels, which probably contributes to the uneven sound of fast panner moves. It makes me wonder what exactly is happening during other fast parameter moves. Nah, I don't really want to find out.
and automation seems to perform better at higher samplerates.
altogether very strange.

ps: cool presentation you did there. it raises the bar in presenting bugs
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-18-2012, 01:26 PM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,965
Default Re: Fast paning weirdness

Hi,

just wanted to give AVID a heads-up because this still happens in PT10. Maybe a fix for PT11? Or an "un-thin automation" feature? Had to pan 50 fast car bys today manually putting in breakpoints so they pan smoothly. Probably 200 extra-clicks that could be avoided ;-)


Thanks,

Frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2024.3 (OSX13.6.5), 8x8x8, MacPro 14,8, AJA LHi, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 64GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New PT10 User. MBox3, MAudio Fast Track Ultra, MAudio Fast Track 8R? epu Pro Tools 10 3 06-13-2012 03:55 PM
digi 001 nor paning right?? broken81 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 4 11-26-2006 08:37 AM
IR/1 weirdness jeff markham Pro Tools TDM Systems (Win) 6 09-01-2006 12:54 AM
Paning a stereo channel rodrigo21 Tips & Tricks 2 05-31-2005 07:39 AM
Surround Paning on C24 blairl ICON & C|24 5 07-06-2002 07:36 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:39 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com