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  #11  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:33 AM
zv yoda zv yoda is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

Thanks for all the replies so far...

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Here's another suggestion; First, set the kit up so its NOT in the center of the room(a square room will have major issues in the center). Now, assuming the ceiling is drywall(ie NOT acoustically treated), put your overheads on tall booms, spread them apart to observe the 3:1 rule(mics 3 times farther apart as they are from the cymbals) and angle the mics up(45-60 degrees) toward the ceiling. Now raise them as close to the ceiling as possible without actually touching. What this creates is the same effect as a boundary mic and it will eliminate a lot of phasing issues with sound that enters the mics AFTER bouncing off the ceiling(think about what happens ABOVE your overhead mics in a small room).
The kit is off-centre already (as much as it can be in such a small room). The ceiling is semi-treated... I have some Rockwool slabs (wrapped in fabric) acting as bass traps around the edges. I also have a "cloud" directly above the kit.. this is a duvet which has been tacked to the ceiling in a few places directly above the kit. The rest of the ceiling is pine panelling (so as not to have it too dead).

Re the 3:1 rule... I'm trying to do that, but the kit is only about 5' (60 inches) wide, so if I keep to the 3:1 rule the mics can be no more than 20 inches or so above the cymbals (that's if I'm doing this properly?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
Criss crossing a pair of 451s centered about 10-12 feet from the floor at the center of the kit can add some interesting imaging.
If only I had 12' ceilings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Yes indeed, but hard to do with an 8' ceiling

Quote:
Originally Posted by EGS View Post
What works for me? To avoid phase issues, I use a single OH mic. I position it over the right knee of the drummer (left for a lefty drummer). I hang it fairly low, maybe 2 feet higher than the drummer's head. Hi-pass at 200hz. This only works if the cymbals are naturally balanced. That is, if one cymbal is louder than the others, you'll have problems. It's powerful and never phasey. Drummers love the sound !!!
That's interesting... I've never considered using just one overhead. I'll give that a try. The cymbals are fairly evenly matched & they're pretty evenly spaced around the kit too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
That's what saws are for.
My studio is in my garage. I live in Ireland. If I cut a hole in the ceiling, I'll need to put an umbrella over the kit to keep the rain off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
That’s what saws are for.

With low ceilings try loosely tacking a few garbage bags or a plastic tarp to the ceiling. This can disturb HF reflections just a little and improve phase anomalies.
I have Rockwool/duvet on the ceiling, so I think the issue is less about reflections & more about the phase issues due to time delays reaching the mics.
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:50 AM
getz76 getz76 is offline
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Wink Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zv yoda View Post
My studio is in my garage. I live in Ireland. If I cut a hole in the ceiling, I'll need to put an umbrella over the kit to keep the rain off!
Just invite me over. Both times I have been to Ireland to visit the wife's family, it has been sunny and warm. I don't know what your lot is complaining about.
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  #13  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:11 AM
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TOM@METRO TOM@METRO is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

Still try what suggested, keeping both cardioid overheads together but looking at the kit in an "x" formation. This has been successful in reducing overhead mic phasing in more than one studio I work in.
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  #14  
Old 10-15-2009, 03:47 PM
Jenk2k Jenk2k is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

e602 inside kick
AKG perception front of kick
audix i5 on snare (or SM57)
e604's on 4 toms
2 x Groove Tubes GT55 large diaphragm condenser overheads set at boundary width of kit about 18 inches from cymbals.
Rode NT5 matched pair on hi hats and ride cymbal.


large 50x50 room, 2nd floor, hardwood floors, one baffle in between the front of the kit and wall. ceiling about 15 ft w/ acoustical tiles.

i find that the large diaphragms give a far more realistic and usable total kit picture than the nt5's.
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  #15  
Old 10-15-2009, 07:30 PM
zv yoda zv yoda is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM@METRO View Post
Still try what suggested, keeping both cardioid overheads together but looking at the kit in an "x" formation. This has been successful in reducing overhead mic phasing in more than one studio I work in.
Will def be trying all of the above in the next couple of weeks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenk2k View Post
e602 inside kick
AKG perception front of kick
audix i5 on snare (or SM57)
e604's on 4 toms
2 x Groove Tubes GT55 large diaphragm condenser overheads set at boundary width of kit about 18 inches from cymbals.
Rode NT5 matched pair on hi hats and ride cymbal.


large 50x50 room, 2nd floor, hardwood floors, one baffle in between the front of the kit and wall. ceiling about 15 ft w/ acoustical tiles.

i find that the large diaphragms give a far more realistic and usable total kit picture than the nt5's.
If I had a 50x50 room with a 15' ceiling then I wouldn't be using a 12x12x8 room!

... having said that, I've just been on your MySpace.... although that's not normally my cup of tea, I have to say you've got a very tight sound going on there... very commercial too... good stuff
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My music

Hardware
21.5" iMac 2.5GHz i5 (mid 2011), 003 rack, Roland TD12KV, Command8, Axiom 61,
Maxtor OneTouch4 FW/750Gb/16Mb/7200rpm (audio/session drive)
WD 1TB MyBook Studio (backup)

Software
OSX 10.7.5, PTLE 9.0.5, Superior Drummer 2.2.3, Miroslav Philharmonic Classik, SampleTank 2.5L
Waves Gold, CLA, JJP, Maserati, T-RackS CS Grand, Massey Tape Sat & DTM, Cytomic The Glue
Amplitube 3, Ampeg SVX
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  #16  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:59 AM
Jenk2k Jenk2k is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

ive got some other projects coming out in the next month or so that blow the engineering and producing i did on that stuff away. I love the gratification i get from not only playing music but engineering it. the constant learning really tickles my pickle.
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  #17  
Old 10-19-2009, 07:04 AM
1ace1 1ace1 is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

Try aiming one mic above the snare about 4-7 feet depending on how much room you want and the other mic should go at 90 degrees to this on the side by the ride and floor tom pointing at the side of the snare but the same distance away as the overhead mic. SO one mic is pointing down (over the snare) and the other is pointing sidways at the snare by the floor tom. Not sure why, but in a good room this sounds great. Also a good M+S pair can work well (414 Side and GT33 Mid) as can the good old NT4 cross coincident stereo mic.
With the first technique I mentioned you can try to invert the phase of the lower mic but normally if possitioned correctly this is not needed.

A:)
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2009, 11:18 AM
Voltron22 Voltron22 is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

Here are some secrets of I have found

Number one SHOTGUN MIC YOUR SNARE WOWOW
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2009, 11:45 AM
Voltron22 Voltron22 is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

If you really wanna get crazy you can try using some stereo micing technics like MS or NOS but for me I usually stick with the old tried and true A B overheads. As for the how high i hate to say it but depends on what your playing. Its fine to keep the overheads low when recording some sidestic samba beat with a bell less ride. But for Blast beats or Classic Rock raise them up.
The MOST important thing to do is look at your drumset and divide it equally. and mic it accordingly. Use a spare XLR cable and sit at the throne of the kit find the middle of the drumset and use the cable to check that each mic is an equal distantce from the other
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2009, 03:24 AM
1ace1 1ace1 is offline
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Default Re: Overhead mic technique - what works for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron22 View Post
Number one SHOTGUN MIC YOUR SNARE WOWOW
This is a classic, but not so much an overhead technique.

It works well if you have the shotgun high above the snare, gate it on mixdown and have the bottom snare key'ed into the side chain, meaning the shotgun track only opens when triggered by the bottom snare. Play with the attack and release to get it more interesting.

A:)
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