Stand alone editor? What.....

[pitbulltodd]

Originally Posted by richpjr

I can only speak for myself, but the "drama" and frustration people are expressing is because the product has a few glaring items that should be easily addressed and Avid has chosen up to this point to ignore them and worse, seemingly ignore their customers. Max appeared on the boards for a day or so and Chimp making a very vague hint on something coming in the future isn't exactly stellar customer relations. The size of Avid and number of products they produce is utterly irrelevant. If the 11R was a priority for them, it would have the resources on it needed to enhance and upgrade it. Clearly it hasn't been and Avid really is making the cardinal mistake of killing off mindset towards Avid. How many of the annoyed ones would rush out and buy an 11R version 2 right now, knowing Avid's track record with the 11R? I sure wouldn't...

well said and that about sums it up for me

[microstudio]

Originally Posted by richpjr

I can only speak for myself, but the "drama" and frustration people are expressing is because the product has a few glaring items that should be easily addressed and Avid has chosen up to this point to ignore them and worse, seemingly ignore their customers. Max appeared on the boards for a day or so and Chimp making a very vague hint on something coming in the future isn't exactly stellar customer relations. The size of Avid and number of products they produce is utterly irrelevant. If the 11R was a priority for them, it would have the resources on it needed to enhance and upgrade it. Clearly it hasn't been and Avid really is making the cardinal mistake of killing off mindset towards Avid. How many of the annoyed ones would rush out and buy an 11R version 2 right now, knowing Avid's track record with the 11R? I sure wouldn't...

Well said.

[derker]

Originally Posted by richpjr

How many of the annoyed ones would rush out and buy an 11R version 2 right now, knowing Avid's track record with the 11R? I sure wouldn't...

That depends...

Does it have seamless instantaneous switching with spillover? Can you run 2 amps and 2 cabs at once, in parallel, with pan controls? Multiple User IRs at once with pan controls? Can you load up any effect on any block? Does it have the ability to do multiple Multi's? Expanded FX selection including the rest of the AIR/Digirack stuff including the full MultiTap delay, a proper gate (that can key off the actual guitar input instead of the signal going into the amp block)? Built in filters on the cab block? Can Amp/cab be separated for better manipulation of the signal chain, along with the option to pinch the signal right before the cab to sent to alternate outputs? What about the other Digi RTAS/TDM plugins that could [relatively] easily be ported for more creative freedom; such as Lofi, Heat, MDW EQ (soloing out frequency bands for tweaking, hello?) Reel Tape? Does the driver function correctly so I don't have to reboot before using PT and is the USB interface robust enough that I don't get 'CPU held off on USB audio' errors? Does it have an extra USB host on the back to plug my Ilok into? Does it have a second mic pre so I can record in stereo? Can it have 2 discrete sets of Main Outs with Neutrik combo connectors, with their own respectful volume controls?

If so, I'd love an 11r mk2

[BCnSTL]

All I know is - the 11R sounds great, is affordable, and is easy to use.

There is significant room for improvement, and it's obviously not a high-priority product for Avid. I'm not going to spend $2000+ to get something incrementally better (for me).

So it goes.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by derker

That depends...

Does it have seamless instantaneous switching with spillover? Can you run 2 amps and 2 cabs at once, in parallel, with pan controls? Multiple User IRs at once with pan controls? Can you load up any effect on any block? Does it have the ability to do multiple Multi's? Expanded FX selection including the rest of the AIR/Digirack stuff including the full MultiTap delay, a proper gate (that can key off the actual guitar input instead of the signal going into the amp block)? Built in filters on the cab block? Can Amp/cab be separated for better manipulation of the signal chain, along with the option to pinch the signal right before the cab to sent to alternate outputs? What about the other Digi RTAS/TDM plugins that could [relatively] easily be ported for more creative freedom; such as Lofi, Heat, MDW EQ (soloing out frequency bands for tweaking, hello?) Reel Tape? Does the driver function correctly so I don't have to reboot before using PT and is the USB interface robust enough that I don't get 'CPU held off on USB audio' errors? Does it have an extra USB host on the back to plug my Ilok into? Does it have a second mic pre so I can record in stereo? Can it have 2 discrete sets of Main Outs with Neutrik combo connectors, with their own respectful volume controls?

If so, I'd love an 11r mk2

+1

[zedhed]

Originally Posted by derker

That depends...

Does it have seamless instantaneous switching with spillover? Can you run 2 amps and 2 cabs at once, in parallel, with pan controls? Multiple User IRs at once with pan controls? Can you load up any effect on any block? Does it have the ability to do multiple Multi's? Expanded FX selection including the rest of the AIR/Digirack stuff including the full MultiTap delay, a proper gate (that can key off the actual guitar input instead of the signal going into the amp block)? Built in filters on the cab block? Can Amp/cab be separated for better manipulation of the signal chain, along with the option to pinch the signal right before the cab to sent to alternate outputs? What about the other Digi RTAS/TDM plugins that could [relatively] easily be ported for more creative freedom; such as Lofi, Heat, MDW EQ (soloing out frequency bands for tweaking, hello?) Reel Tape? Does the driver function correctly so I don't have to reboot before using PT and is the USB interface robust enough that I don't get 'CPU held off on USB audio' errors? Does it have an extra USB host on the back to plug my Ilok into? Does it have a second mic pre so I can record in stereo? Can it have 2 discrete sets of Main Outs with Neutrik combo connectors, with their own respectful volume controls?

If so, I'd love an 11r mk2

As a matter of interest, how much more would you be prepared to pay for it?

As far as the debate about a standalone editor, clearly the issue is not one about Avid "Not caring about the 11R'. IMHO, it's about Avid binding the 11R software with Pro Tools for a specific purpose. I'm sure they are well aware that people tend to use what software they learn on rather than switching to another program at a later date. I'm sure they have a number of 'New Recruits' to Pro Tools since they bundled it with the 11R.

So really, it's all about marketing.

Personally though, I think it's a mistake to have done so, or certainly to keep doing so.

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by zedhed

As a matter of interest, how much more would you be prepared to pay for it?

As far as the debate about a standalone editor, clearly the issue is not one about Avid "Not caring about the 11R'. IMHO, it's about Avid binding the 11R software with Pro Tools for a specific purpose. I'm sure they are well aware that people tend to use what software they learn on rather than switching to another program at a later date. I'm sure they have a number of 'New Recruits' to Pro Tools since they bundled it with the 11R.

So really, it's all about marketing.

Personally though, I think it's a mistake to have done so, or certainly to keep doing so.

I really don't like though is having to load ProTools to get into the editor, not anymore, not after all the problems I've had. I realized what they were trying to do and in the beginning didn't mind so much but experience with the product has taught me otherwise. ProTools is a resource hungry hog. It was like - Avid idea's department, "Hey, why don't we incorporate the 11R editor into ProTools itself, I mean it not like anything will go wrong".

Well from experience, PT is always losing the connection to the 11R - at "least" once a day. The only way to remedy this is to turn of both the 11R and PT and start again. PT is of a mind to crash randomly - always a joy. Sometimes the load-up screen freezes at different points - untold amounts of fun, sometimes when loading up a project and initializing the settings it freezes, and lately the 11R editor with ProTools has made ProTools go away - as in poof, gone without a trace, I will now make this PT here disappear - o' rapture. All the fun of the circus when all I want to do is use the editor to load up or modify a sound.

Using the PT editor is like a box of chocolates - you never know whats going to go wrong next.

As for the question how much would I pay for a 11R mk II, with all the new-fangled technologeewhiz (including harmonizer, detuner, amp profiling, IR's, more FX, more flexibility in sound sculpting [greater number of slots], standalone editor [with all bugs fixed], Air plugs, etc, etc....), I would be prepared pony up another $1,200, and for that price Avid can throw in a copy of PT 10 - that's for all us older users still stuck on LE.

[microstudio]

The 11R is great if you are a PT user. If you are not the only reason you would have bought the 11R would be because it is advertised to work in other DAWs but never advertised with a stand alone editor.

It's plane and simple AVID needs to but never will make a stand alone editor IMHO or if they do it will come up short in a way that AVID's mighty dollar comes 1st and the customer comes 2nd.

Reason 6.5 come out today (FREE!) and with this update they have revolutionized buying plugins. Reason a rock solid integration with Line6 and the tones you can make infinite and easy as pie to make. I am so done with AVID and very pissed I suck money into their cash cow.

The giant will fall.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by microstudio

The 11R is great if you are a PT user. If you are not the only reason you would have bought the 11R would be because it is advertised to work in other DAWs but never advertised with a stand alone editor.

It's plane and simple AVID needs to but never will make a stand alone editor IMHO or if they do it will come up short in a way that AVID's mighty dollar comes 1st and the customer comes 2nd.

Reason 6.5 come out today (FREE!) and with this update they have revolutionized buying plugins. Reason a rock solid integration with Line6 and the tones you can make infinite and easy as pie to make. I am so done with AVID and very pissed I suck money into their cash cow.

The giant will fall.

You really don't want to know how many times people around here post something about them "falling" In reality there is still nothing to replace much of their market at this point.

Thanks for the reason 6.5 heads up. They are a good company. Been using it since v1 in 2001. It's came a long way. Could never imagine trying to edit and mix an album in it though!!

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by microstudio

Reason 6.5 come out today (FREE!)

Really, you have worded that incorrectly. It is not free and never has been free! What you should've said is that the update has been released and is free for current Reason users - of which I am not one of them.

So I would have to pony up $449 US. And I'll probably need the essentials pack as well so I can use some decent stuff so that will set me back approx $579 US. I then I would need a proper drum plug-in as well, never using default drum plugs with a DAW ever again ... and oh look, it'll be about the same or more as a new version of ProTools X. The giant will fall is a tad premature.

And I am not a lover of the way Avid works not by a long shot!

And this new plug-in paradigm, hmmm, sounds like a way for Propellerhead to make more money - hmmm, reminds me a certain other company.