In Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

Pro Tools 10 14 Day Trial -

The best way to understand the value of Pro Tools HD 10 is to use it. Currently, that’s hard to do, unless you buy it, so we’re introducing a 14-day trial for Pro Tools and Pro Tools HD 10 starting next week on the Avid website. With the 14-day trial everyone will be able to experience the speed, power and capability of Pro Tools 10 first hand, and with no risk.

Now this is quite a good move.

[robp1]

I can't believe how many lemmings there are on here that are happy with the "Support Plan" and the upgrade still being $599??? Why are we paying that price for an upgrade that should be a 9.1 or 9.5 revision at the most! They admitted themselves that this is a stop gap to PT11... WTF?

I've not needed "Support" for my PTHD rigs in over 6 years... You are basically trying to feed us the "Waves Update Plan" and at the same time pretending that $599 is still a good deal for an upgrade that includes a set of features that no one really asked for..???

The people spoke and Avid listened...Way to go Avid, Yippee.

[PostHuman]

This all sounds good & I'm glad your listening. I bought the PT HD 10 the day it came out for $999 & am happy with it. Reverse plugin button, new gain tools, CS plugging, delay plugin, ability to open more then 1 AS plugin for me is huge, as well as being able to save a open set of AS plugins to a window setup really cuts time in my work. Being able to use the unused DSPs as native processing is neat too.

My only problem is with the HDX upgrades. They are very over priced. I have an accel core card & 2 accel expantion cards, both pic-e, but to hand all them over & only get 1 HDX card(& pay $6000.00 pou of pocket) is nuts. Even if that 1HDX card can do the work of all 3 accell cards, adding 6k to the upgrade is just a slam. I could understand maybe asking 2-3k at the most but 6? Make an option for us to buy the cards without the software, I've already got pt had 10 & the software in the package would be wasted! Take 1k off right there!

If I could trade my 3 current cards for 2 hdx cards, pay 6k put of pocket , & have the sodtware taken put if the upgrade, I would have bought on the 1st day.

The price is simply too high for customers who bought HD cards within the last 2-3yrs, take some of the weight of us buy giving LOYAL avid customers a reward! I don't want to stop using avid products, but your making it very hard to stay put with all the current options available.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by robp1

I can't believe how many lemmings there are on here that are happy with the "Support Plan" and the upgrade still being $599??? Why are we paying that price for an upgrade that should be a 9.1 or 9.5 revision at the most! They admitted themselves that this is a stop gap to PT11... WTF?

I've not needed "Support" for my PTHD rigs in over 6 years... You are basically trying to feed us the "Waves Update Plan" and at the same time pretending that $599 is still a good deal for an upgrade that includes a set of features that no one really asked for..???

The people spoke and Avid listened...Way to go Avid, Yippee.

Right let me make something a bit clearer.

New release and update differentiation.

An update is when a company includes some new features and bug fixes. Usually mostly the later. But when the actual core of your program is being changed completely, that's no longer an update. That's a new release.

The core of PT was:

TDM, RTAS, 24bit fixed point files, and 48 bit fixed point summing mix. That what the core of pro tools was.

Now you have:

TDM and RTAS going extinct and being replaced by AAX plugin format which is already functional in this new release.
32 bit floating point files
64 bit floating point summing mix.

The very core of the program has been modernized and expanded to allow for future integration of a 64 bit format.

That's why it's not an update, but a new release.

Ans since I know some people will ask about the past release well here it is.

Let's take pt 9. The decoupling of the audio engine to the hardware meant a big change had to be made in the core of the program to allow "foreign" drivers to talk with the program and allow 3rd party hardware/sound cards.

etc

[gives]

Originally Posted by jimlongo

On the contrary. You get all the features except maximum delay compensation - the new plugins, 32bit, mixed bitrate, interleaved file support, clip gain, ram playback, realtime fades. What's not to like, it's a great software update. Any limitations seem to be technical not malicious.

Really, you should read the What's New Guide
http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor...s_10_73409.pdf

Hey Jim. Thnx for the clarity:) I wonder if you have any thoughts as to if you know for sure if I have a NEW best in class HD IO and an HD2 Accel rig now, if I still can use my TDM plugs? I think that is the case until the HDX cards are in play. Is that correct?

Thnx in advance.. G

[Draulym]

Originally Posted by danander11

Max,

With this support plan option, is it true that you also need a qualifying system, not just a HD9 asset on your iLok, to qualify?

Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown

I'd also like that answered^

Also- why don't they just cut to the chase and sell the support contract thru the Avid store? I don't have a "dealer". This company is so weird with all their "rules".

I'd like to know both these (especially since I'm 200 miles away from any form of Avid dealer)

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

There’s been a lot of great feedback from the community on the launch of Pro Tools 10 and HDX. There’s also been a lot of discussion on the price of the Pro Tools HD 10 software upgrade. I’d like to address some of those concerns here, and also want to revisit the $599 Avid Support Contract details I spoke about earlier in the week. We have some updates that should clear up some of the confusion around that.

Pro Tools HD 10 Upgrade Pricing -

First, let’s talk about the Pro Tools HD 10 upgrade. We believe strongly in the value of Pro Tools HD 10. It represents a significant step forward for our professional customers. The workflow improvements in Pro Tools HD 10 are substantial, and when added together, dramatically reduce the time required to deliver your best results. And while it may be difficult to put a specific price tag on features like Extended Disk Cache, Clip Gain, our premium AAX Channel Strip plug-in, and many other additions, if sold separately they could easily add up to much more than $999.

It doesn't matter what you believe at Avid. I'm betting 48 hours ago there were a couple hundred people who believed they were still going to be employed today.

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

More importantly, we’ve witnessed customers who’ve experienced Pro Tools HD 10 instantly see and feel just how powerful it really is and how much value the upgrade adds to their business. They believe it is an incredible value. A couple examples:

Russ states on the Air Users Blog:
"My advice if you are thinking about Pro Tools [HD] 10 is don't believe anything Avid say about it in their marketing; they are playing it down - it's better! Pro Tools [HD] 10 may have 50 new features, but it is for a hundred and one reasons that I'm giving Pro Tools [HD] 10 my Editors Choice Award. It's a no brainer." link

Read the article, and the quote. He almost never directly references Pro Tools HD. Way to edit for your own benefit.

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

Marty Humphrey, CAS and owner of The Dub Stage states on Gearslutz:
"We at "The Dub Stage" have been on PT HD 10 for quite a while and it rocks! Currently using it on a Huge Feature Film and its rock solid!! The Disc Cache rules! HDX is gonna be amazing for those of us pushing our systems to the hilt. The new AAX plug ins are awesome along with the new channels strip from system 5. Now we can have up to 12 systems to link with the new PTHD10. I'M LOVING IT!!" link

Not to discredit Marty or anyone else at the The Dub Stage... but is this really the majority demographic you're trying to reach? How many PT users really need to link up to 12 systems together for a "Huge Feature Film?"

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

Pro Tools 10 14 Day Trial -

The best way to understand the value of Pro Tools HD 10 is to use it. Currently, that’s hard to do, unless you buy it, so we’re introducing a 14-day trial for Pro Tools and Pro Tools HD 10 starting next week on the Avid website. With the 14-day trial everyone will be able to experience the speed, power and capability of Pro Tools 10 first hand, and with no risk.

This should have been out from the start. Why Pro Tools has never had demos before is beyond me.

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

Avid Standard Support Plan for $599 -

Now, back to the Avid Standard Support plan. I spoke about this last week and we quickly saw there was a great deal of confusion. We really want to clear this up because this program is great for our customers. So currently, if you are on an Avid support plan, you receive a year of maintenance (tech support, etc.) and free upgrades from the time of purchase. So if you were on this plan when you originally purchased Pro Tools HD 9, you would be eligible for a complimentary upgrade to Pro Tools HD 10. What we realized quickly was that very few of our audio customers knew about it and therefore could not take advantage of it. Based on this, we wanted fix the problem and create an opportunity for you to get on this retroactively.

So here’s the deal: Any customer who currently owns Pro Tools HD 9 is eligible to purchase the Standard Avid Support Plan for $599 until the end of the year. Once you purchase this from your dealer, you will be eligible to receive your Pro Tools HD 10 upgrade as part of the program. You will also have 12 months of maintenance, and any future upgrades within the 12 months will be included.

At the end of the 12 months, you can renew the program and get future upgrades and support. It’s a great program. For around $50 a month, you never have to worry about software upgrades or support pricing again.

To sum up, we believe that professionals deserve the best tools that help you be more creative and get your projects done better and faster. We’re confident that once you experience the giant leap in performance and capability of Pro Tools HD 10, its value will be self-evident.

Looking forward to your feedback.

Now this is the hilarious part.

Up until now, you've told us how much of a great "value" PTHD10 is at $999. This is like a bloody infomercial.

"We're giving you this $999 value for just... $599! And if you call now, you get free tech support for a year (just ignore the dozens of tech support guys we let go of yesterday) and the opportunity to get the next upgrade for free! This opportunity is not available in our webstore or at any of our online retailers! So act now! (Why is that, exactly? Couldn't be to intentionally confuse people into buying the $999 upgrade because they don't know any better. )"

Why do I say opportunity?

Well, what happens if your upgrade runs up after a year, and 3 months later the new version of Pro Tools comes out? Guess what! You're paying at least another $599 for that update!

Or how about this scenario... what say you paid for the next $599 support package after your first year runs up... but then next year the upgrade price is only $400 for HD users? Won't you feel dumb. Although, I guess this update is just telling of future prices to never be reasonable again.

Now, beyond logical real-world scenarios...

If this $599 deal is the greatest deal ever... what's the point of even charging the $999? Obviously it makes no sense to pay an extra $400 to get the same product with less support. Realistically, the pricing should be completely the other way around. $599 for just the software, and $999 for software + support. Otherwise, there's no reason for there to be a $999 price at all, other than to confuse, infuriate and no less than mislead users into paying it. That's all there is to it.

Plus, this still provides no comfort for the TDM crowd. They still don't get a better deal for getting the axe. They pay the same price as everyone else to get about half of the new features, and a guaranteed life expectancy at the end of the year. A possible free upgrade is of no use to them, since the next version of Pro Tools won't be compatible anyway.

Plus.... this part is important:

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

So here’s the deal: Any customer who currently owns Pro Tools HD 9 is eligible to purchase the Standard Avid Support Plan for $599 until the end of the year.

What about HD8? What happens after this year is up? Why can't I buy this plan any time I want to? Shouldn't there be a 24/7/365 support deal?

You spend the whole first paragraph defending what a great price $999 is, then shave off $400 to make the Pavlovian point. To make us drool. But if that's the case... it can't possibly be worth $999. I know how marketing works, I've been trained by 3 different companies in how to sell products which are exorbitantly priced. You always tell them a higher price first, work in the "value," and then drop it right before you show them where to sign. And that my friends, is how you sell a set of kitchen knives for $1200, and get 50% commission. This is sales 101.

The point to take away from all of this:

Nothing has changed. Avid has not "listened" to the community. We are simply being exposed to a program that already existed in the first place, but was kept quiet until users complained about the $999 to the boiling point. Now they come along and reassure you that they are listening. This is not a new, better deal. It's the same deal, they are just now telling us about it.

Shady.

If you re-hired DTS to come here and tell us about it... maybe it would be a different story...

[Etienne Kinosom]

What about PT 8 HD owner?
Is the support plan offering the upgrade to PT 10 HD for 599$?
Or is it just for PT 9 HD owner?
So, for PT 8 HD owner, the price is still around 1400 $????

[BadGrrmmr]

Originally Posted by cboyer1951

What... are people afraid to respond to this guy?

"Look!! We provided 4 wheels in front instead of the one on your new tri-cycle, so that alone is worth the double the usual price you pay for it."

What people are saying is that we would preferred if you would have held up the PT9 release until you had these 'neat' 'must have' new bells and whistles. Or charge us $99 for this upgrade. Or wait until PT11 and 64bit and then release it as PT10/64, HDX and no support in the future for the previous hardware units.

I was at a friends and I tried it, yes the new functions cut down production time, but like a lot of people say it should have been release a couple of years ago with these functions. (I have tried a new DAW called Zynwave Podium that has the feature already, and free) (and how about Acoustica MixCraft).

The problem is that you have such a large user base that you feel you are teflon coated perhaps.

I love my Pro Tools and I am a home enthusiast user. I will probably upgrade but it will take me one year of saving to be able to afford that. And at that time you'll be releasing the 64 bit version with even more AAX plugins and 3 times more the efficiency probably.

But aside from my personal situation, I've actually cringed to watch what has happened over the past few years.....

1. Release a free version 7 point whatever, to spread the appeal.
2. Hardware only with Le version, then drop the hardware requirement 1 version later.
3. Drop prices drastically to upgrade the Le users to HD.
Then now the HD is replaced by HDX. (I know HD is still there, but for all intents and purposes...).
4. Release an upgrade that totally peeves the HD users with no fixes for them, but directed at the Midi user and the Mbox and Le portion of the user base.
5. Now... too early charging on top of $250odd dollars (PT8->9) another $300 (PT9-10). Which is $5something..,. pretty much a new DAW price.
No user loyalty offers.

(I'm sure that some things could be added to my list, and I'm wrong on some items, but generally this has been what I have seen).

They just look like shots in the dark.

Shaking my head. I just think you should have fired managers and left the support staff and programmers to continue the good work, also.

And you're focusing on a rental to prove your point of getting people to shell out the money that they should not have to pay as PT9 should have had the functionality of PT10.

You don't even have clue to your disassociation from reality it seems.

And Russ and his site and whatever other sites stand up... I've gone through the same process, sure I love the new functionality (clip based gain, which is not just volumn control, real time fades; space and time saver, mixed audio media format in same project and track, new Channel strip and AAX, disk streaming and best useage of memory ever) of course these are undeniably excellent qualities. But we're not talking about qualities we're talking about style and effort to retain and communicate at the users level. We don't have to accept the marketing and management teams viewpoints of bang for buck only.

Anyway, I look forward to 64 bit and upgrading at that time.

Thanks
Chuck

I think the 'home user' say it all...

Why does a home user need to upgrade all the time? Can you not still record with pt9 or 8 or 7?? If you can't afford the upgrade, don't get it!! Simple. Stop bitching about it! If youre serious about going to another DAW then do it! Stop coming on the avid forum trying to stir up the staff of Avid who are nice enough to come on here and answer questions is stupid.

Time to move on...

[danander11]

Originally Posted by Max Gutnik

Russ states on the Air Users Blog:
"My advice if you are thinking about Pro Tools [HD] 10 is don't believe anything Avid say about it in their marketing; they are playing it down - it's better! Pro Tools [HD] 10 may have 50 new features, but it is for a hundred and one reasons that I'm giving Pro Tools [HD] 10 my Editors Choice Award. It's a no brainer." link

Max, Why on earth would you do a hatchet job on a review and then link to the same review? What you have quoted here is NOT what Russ said.. You have added all of the reference to HD yourself.. Dude, I thought you were above that sort of stuff...

Wow, How bad is it at Avid right now?