Are TDM Systems as Buggy as LE?

[steve at Your Heaven]

"...It was a simple question to see if people with TDM had as many problems as people with LE...."

A problematic question, as it assumes that we all have lots of experience with BOTH TDM and LE systems. I suspect that is not typically the case. I have used TDM for some time, and know it pretty well.

I have also used LE some, but not very much. I like that the software operates similarly, lets me do work on the road. And I have at various times had an 002, 002R, Mbox, and 001 to either work with or have helped someone with. I never had any un-resolvable issues with any of them on a variety of machines, desktops and laptops, and in fact very few problems at all. TDM was tricky (in my opinion) when first available for Windows NT, but now on XP seems pretty much like any other program. I run it simultaneously with Excel and Word and Firefox and Palm on a machine with only 512Mb memory, and it seems to work fine; sometimes there's a conflict with Word, and I save and close and reboot and don't lose anything. I probably get a crash 2-4 times a year, if that. All on a low priced Dell (TDM), and 2 desktops and 3 notebooks (LE).

But I’m mostly a TDM user. That’s the forum I read, and so know a fair amount about what is going on (mostly because of the excellent information posted by others, especially RJR and Nikki) – I’m well VERSED in tdm. Despite my many (mostly trouble free, it seems) uses of LE, I really don’t know how to help someone resolve those issues or think through the problems with any expertise, because I’m not continuously keeping up with it (actually, I almost never even look at the LE forums). I suspect the majority of the folks who know a lot mostly know a lot about what they mostly deal with. That’s why people on this forum have offered to try to troubleshoot the specific instance rather than voice an opinion.

My personal guess about your problem is that an error was made, there’s some unusual incompatibility in something you have, there’s some software conflict, or there’s an actual [but possibly partial] hardware malfunction either in the [002?] or elsewhere – they do occasionally happen.

[100grit]

Again, my apologies everyone and you too Rail. I'd like to start over and with the right foot this time. I'll try to be more precise in my questions and work with you guys - it's a free board and there's no room for headaches and i imagine that TDM users don't need the headaches from us LE users. Thanks again.

[s0nguy]

Wow.... who the hell does this guy think he is?

The simple answer to your question is NO. HD kills LE in all ways, shapes and forms. Hoewver, LE should work as advertised as long as you have a system that meets Digis standards... I dont care if it's better. I had a smokin AMD64 that I tried to use with HD... it didnt work. I had to build a SLOWER Pentium4 rig to get it stable.

Pride is a nasty bugger... Rail really is just trying to help you. The fact that he even hangs out here at all is a blessing...

S0nguy

[100grit]

Wow.... who the hell does this guy think he is?

The simple answer to your question is NO. HD kills LE in all ways, shapes and forms. Hoewver, LE should work as advertised as long as you have a system that meets Digis standards... I dont care if it's better. I had a smokin AMD64 that I tried to use with HD... it didnt work. I had to build a SLOWER Pentium4 rig to get it stable.

Pride is a nasty bugger... Rail really is just trying to help you. The fact that he even hangs out here at all is a blessing...

S0nguy

Wow? Labeling me? Jeez.....

Pride? Bad trait, really. I know no one in here, so I react at surface replies. Some replies to my initial post were curt, abrubt, and totally lacking of any heartfelt direction. I guess this forum is no diff from any others. I lay down an olive branch and Nashville Billy Bob gets on my back. Hey Nash, why is Rail's hanging out here a blessing?

[s0nguy]

Hey Nash, why is Rail's hanging out here a blessing?

When you're up against a deadline, can't get an answer from Digi and have clients breathing down your neck..post a question on here and watch how fast Rail and other answer...Then refer to your quote above.

This NG isn't like all the others... it sounds to me like you're bringing your preconceived notions from other NG experiences and trying to make them fly here.

They won't.

s0nguy

[nikki-k]

Hi!
Let's see...

Follow some guidelines as strictly as possible, be sure you have the cash to throw into HD, and yes- it will be quite problem free for most day to day uses.

XP and OSX are equal platforms; neither is better. Which one to use is solely dependent upon personal choice, which would most likely be based on personal experience. One is not more stable than the other, IF used properly, with caution and common sense on top of that. Anyone telling you differently is not following what I just said. Period.

LE vs HD:
Tough one. There are those of us that have spent gobs of time learning, researching, etc. Some of us have extensive backgrounds in some aspect of computing, and also in analog recording, and some also have the background in maths, science, engineering, etc to provide even more of a solid foundation to build upon.

That said...Both will run with little to no problems, if done correctly. I have run LE with 001, AMIII, Mbox, 002 and 002R. I have used them on 5 different systems, which I built 4 of...last was a laptop. I also have run an old Mix system on Mac, did PARIS on a PC (Win 98/ME), and then HD on Mac the first month it came out...and moved it into a PC running XP as soon as it was out, since I prefer the Win OS's. And since then, have upgraded to an HD4 Accel system. I no longer use my LE system, since my HD system sits one room away.

HD can be mor epicky about system components. The power supply alone can kill a system before it runs. Typically, the person(s) investing in an HD system will have the money, and/or knowledge, to either build themselves a perfectly stable system (like the one I outline on the PT site I run), or will opt to purchase a perfectly stable system from someone who knows how, and will provide support after (if needed); like, Sweetwater, Carillon, etc.

LE is less finicky (IMO), but, there are far more incompetents using LE on systems that do not qualify, in some form or another. Harsh? Yep. Truth is sometimes. But it is simple with HD or LE: Buy a KNOWN WORKING SYSTEM OR COMPONENTS. It WILL work. And DO NOT throw extraneous apps and utilities on it. Dont use it for ANYTHING but Pro Tools. Same as when dedicating a machine to GigaStudio. DEDICATE it. Period. If one eliminates the incompetents, the machines with unqualified (or unproven) parts (or whole systems), extra software baggage, and defective equipment, and the failure rate of Pro Tools is reduced to known bugs and/or issues (ALL software has this), and the occasional singularity.

As an example: I created a system from parts anyone can buy. I explained how to assemble it. And I then offered to buy those parts if someone purchased them, assembled properly, and PT would not run well. I walked one person thru building it over the phone, and setting up XP and PT after even. While I offered that, I did not get ONE SINGLE person asking me to buy their hardware. Cause it is simple: it worked. And continues to.

For LE, it is really very simple: Follow Allan's guidelines. Buy one of the very few laptops he has taken time to verify. Follow all his suggestions. And if you want a desktop, either follow one of his recipies, or follow mine. Or Rail's.

Sorry your experience has been a bad one. It doesnt need to be. It may require a sizeable investment of your time to overcome. But, educating oneself thru tutor, mentor, reading, research, etc...priceless....

[nikki-k]

BTW- Rail being here is a blessing because he is the most knowledgeable PT guru here that has time to browse, answer, and care. It comes with a price tho: Respect.

If he asks for specs, give em. Period. He asks for a reason, and the fact he asks is his way of saying, "OK- I'll throw you a rope...whats your name? Why are you in that pit?" Not answering, or asking why he asks is disrespectful.

He, and most of us here in XP TDM land, love Pro Tools. We want others who use Pro Tools to be able to do so with as few problems as possible. There is not a problem here that will not receive attention, as long as respect is given at every step. If one walks into this house, those of us here prefer them to wipe their feet, take off their jacket, and hang out with us. Relax, and enjoy. And learn, and help.

You got off on the wrong foot, but at least you admitted it, and apologized. I respect that, and that is why I took time to write a long answer. May not be the nicest, all flattering response, but it was an honest one...and one I am sure at least a few others here would agree with.

HD is a different world than LE. They are more different from each other than Cubase is from Nuendo. And, it carries a sizeable price tag...with good reason, despite what naysayers will profer.

Good luck!

[100grit]

OK, sounds good to me Now all I gotta do is bump up from LE Land.

[s0nguy]

Now that all of that is settled maybe we can get down to business...

This certainly is the most heated thread we've had in PC HD land for a while.

-S0nguy

[putney]

It was a simple question to see if people with TDM had as many problems as people with LE. ......... I didn't want to get into my system analysis, just an honest answer to a simple question. When people start with the 'tude, I'm out.

If I could take a stab at your question:

I've used Tdm went LE and back TDM. Will never go back.

I find that most 'issues' with TDM deal with improper configurations. So you might just be in the same situation if you convert to TDM.


-putney