Horrible VI performance when recording in 2019.10!

[TNM]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I also like my trusty old Commodore 64 because it is 8bit and cannot even access more than 64kB of memory so everything is maxed out, and the sound chip is incredible. Oh wait, that was early 80's and the "USB sticks" (called floppy disks at the time) were size of a book and held a whopping 360kB per side.

Sarcasm aside; Apple is doing us a favor here by forcing 64bit. Of course nobody needs to run Catalina from day one but eventually it will be good. Having to say goodbye to some old software is a welcome change for me, but with that said I can see myself using Mojave for quite some time.

If only it were the "64 bit" app requirement that was the issue mate. That doesn't even begin to cover it. If that's all it was, PT would have been working with it 6 months back. It's the hardened runtime and notarization issues.

At this stage I am certain many smaller plugin devs will just cut their losses and run and just never update with Catalina compatibility. Even the best known indi devs like u-he and melda are very annoyed and melda has gone as far as to ask people to switch to windows LOL!

That said, I disagree with your statement anyway.. There is no negative to Apple simply allowing 32 bit apps to run like they did in Mojave and all OSX before it. Windows 10 has amazing backward compatibility and performs great for DAW use.. If Microsoft can do it, so can Apple.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by TNM

a 10 core trashcan (OWC refurb with the unique 10 core option)

I have one !!! just not from OWC but bought the processor and swapped it in myself

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by TNM

If only it were the "64 bit" app requirement that was the issue mate. That doesn't even begin to cover it. If that's all it was, PT would have been working with it 6 months back.

Do you know better? Even as we speak parts of Avid Video Engine are 32bit which means PT will simply just not launch on Catalina. They need to work all frameworks to be full 64bit

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by TNM

That said, I disagree with your statement anyway.. There is no negative to Apple simply allowing 32 bit apps to run like they did in Mojave and all OSX before it.

You can disagree, it is cool. I just think it is great to force 64bit bcs that makes software developers working. If you didn't force it they do nothing. This way we will have better quality software and if nothing more, we will know which software we can safely leave behind and never look back.

[Downtown_BE]

Originally Posted by Southsidemusic

Well works GREAT here on both our trashcans and on my MBP 2019 so something is wrong somewhere. If this was widespread we wouldn’t have zero posts a out it. I can arm and record many VI at onge but why would I? One or two at the same time is plenty. Also what you describe about bad at 128 etc etc we run at 64 buffer and works perfect. As we live off this we would have noticed if there was a problem and 64 buffer size on 2 of the Apollo X8P’s and X16 Apollo.

Ine trashcan on High sierra and one on Mojave. My MBP came with Mojave but I tried on my older MBP 2017 and it was the same steady rolling with Sierra 10.12.6.

All Macs have Pro Tools Ultimate (HD 2019.10) ...

just wondering - did you install over 2019.6 or did you fresh install (remove all the files an reinstall all plugins)? and ist this (with the help of PT prefs) still an issue how to install new protools versions?

[Stephen Bond]

Originally Posted by TNM

WOW.. I am completely shocked.. I only installed 2019.10 on the laptop today.. I am thankful I haven't installed on the imac pro yet.. I am still on the final version of PT12 on the imac pro, yes, even with OS 10.13.6 (i work at 128 buffer so the issue doesn't happen anyway). I am planning on putting Mojave o tomorrow and upgrading to PT 2019.10..
.. but now, I am literally scared to install it on my imac pro...!

One thing that has improved with Pro Tools is you can have multiple versions installed incase a new version is a lemon.

Just rename the Pro Tools file in the Applications folder to Pro Tools 2019.6 and such before installing the latest one.

IMHO, a 128 buffer is nice. Anything lower is even better but not essential. I'm usually OK with a 256 one if necessary. 512 is too high for recording.

Stephen

[Southsidemusic]

Originally Posted by Downtown_BE

just wondering - did you install over 2019.6 or did you fresh install (remove all the files an reinstall all plugins)? and ist this (with the help of PT prefs) still an issue how to install new protools versions?

We always run over the older version of PT. Never installed 2019.6 as it wasn’t needed but every PT version since PT 10.0.0 HD have been installed over the older one. We never had any issue and on Mac there is no uninstaller anyway.

[TNM]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Do you know better? Even as we speak parts of Avid Video Engine are 32bit which means PT will simply just not launch on Catalina. They need to work all frameworks to be full 64bit

Well no I didn't know that at all and do not know better.. That was presumption that PT was fully 64 bit.. Very surprised to find out it isn't.

Regardless, all stuff that is compatible now will have to be notarized in January 2020 so a lot of stuff will stop working.

I could live with losing my 32 bit plugins. but it's going to be a lot more than that. 70% of the plugins I own are not compatible with Catalina, and they are all 64 bit plugins. Apple have gone to insane lengths for security (it's really to just control everything put on mac OS) and it has broken tons of stuff. Not even izotope stuff works. And they are usually up to speed with compatibility.

It's not as easy as just knowing "which companies to leave behind".. I do not want to lose work that i did 5 years ago if I decide to work on it again.. I want all the plugins compatible.... So I stay with my imac pro pre catalina till the machine dies one day, and I get a windows laptop soon and then eventually a windows desktop. I will be compatible forever. Love the idea of that.

In fact, this is funny, Cubase on windows will open my mac projects that Catalina can't, cause of plugin incompatibility. LOL.. An entirely different OS!

[JFreak]

I was working with 64bit UNIX servers in 90's which is why I really honestly think Apple forcing 64bit is a good thing. Two decades after it was a nerdy thing

[TNM]

Also I want to ask a favour.. I asked this last time and no one would help.. It really won't take much of your time cause you launch pro tools every day anyway!

If you are on mac and using core audio, PLEASE..

set your buffer in PT to at least 64.. go 32 if you are game.

Load ANY VI known to be resource heavy (things like Xpand will not cause issue).

Press the record monitor button. Just tell me if the pro tools meter starts suddenly loading all cores for just the one instrument armed.

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I have some more results with Sylenth synth.. this is actually even more alarming as I did the tests this time with record OFF also.

Sylenth patch "Trance Epic".
3 note, 4 bar chord, copied for 16 bars total and looping. Same midi chord file on all 3 DAWs.

Buffer on all DAWS = 128 this time, to give PT a fighting chance.

because PT's internal playback buffer is 1024, i set studio one to 1024 (high setting) and logic to 1024 (the medium setting).

NON Record armed tracks:

Logic 10.4.6:
71 instances!
Maximum Real CPU used: 565% out of a possible 800%.

Pro Tools 2019.10:
32 instances! WTF?
Maximum real cpu used: 563% of a possible 800%.

Studio one V4.5:
Unlike Logic and Pro tools, studio one never stops playback on an overload.. it just does little distortions that worsen the more the cpu is overloaded. The stable result is 35..That's the number I confirm has absolutely no clicks or pops.
Maximum Real CPU Usage = 329% of a possible 800%.
S1 is therefore *unbelievably* inefficient, as it always has been..
Pops and clicks would happen out of nowhere even on 40 instances, and S1's own usage meter had headroom! I used the AU just like Logic.

When record is armed:

Logic 10.4.6:
23 tracks!
This, despite Logic only using 4 of the 8 threads when tracks are armed (I think this is actually very clever cause it leaves half the threads clear for playback tracks).

Studio One V4.5:
5 tracks! S1 is just SO bad at live VI recording.. Even on a moderately busy project, just arming one VI sends it going nuts.. The unbelievably good track transform helps alleviate it to a degree cause you can one click choose between audio and midi for a track.

PT 2019.10:
19 tracks! it did very well this time!


Now ok, the recording tests for so many VI's may not be real world but playback surely is.. Deciding to included the real cpu usage this time has opened my eyes a bit.. Is Sylenth AAX using a lot more CPU than Sylenth AU/VST? Because PT is able to use the same REAL Cpu as logic before playback drops out. SO.. i'm going to put this to the test by using the AU wrapped in Blue Cat Patchworx.

However, if there is an AAX native plugin you KNOW is uber efficient and programmed well.. please let me know so I can put it to the test!

Ps The reason I used the real cpu usage only on the playback track test was because that's the one I feel was relevant and matters in the real world.. Just how much of your cpu can your DAW really use?
Also of note, I was able to get around 680% real cpu usage in PT 12.8.4 on the same macbook with sierra.