Adding Playlist View to MIDI Tracks

[take77]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

I dunno. I am concerned with the development of Sketch. It feels like existing users' music-making concerns have been back-burnered in a big push for new users, with different ideas of how music should be assembled.

Agreed.

Just my observation, but the smaller number of views in the Sketch forum compared to the thousands of views in the "2023.9" thread indicates that Sketch isn't as important as what many are hoping for when reading about the latest release.
Most users are likely viewing the 2023.9 thread to see what's been fixed or what's been broke along with the new features.

I imagine that despite those numbers, Sketch will get a continued focus on further development.
I'm not saying that Sketch isn't the start of cooler things forthcoming but it does shift the focus from the fixes the larger number of users are awaiting.

Personally, I don't foresee ever composing a song like Tom Petty & The Heartbreaker's ~Here Comes My Girl~♫♫ with Sketch.*

Working out the chords & vocal melody; unplugged with a guitar or piano (away from the computer) will always be a preferred and more authentic way of crafting a song for me.

And having MIDI instrumentation work as expected along with the addition of a MIDI playlists feature would contribute to the creative flow on an equal level as Sketch.
Just create a drum loop for each section, jam in loop record/playlist mode, choose the best moments with everything already in place or shuffle sections as desired. All within Pro Tools.

* Not saying that some Kid Sensation can't or won't

[skylar_battles]

Concerned as well! I would argue that a proper MIDI playlist feature would be far more important for creative flow than the development of sketch, since most Pro Tools users would still likely prefer their traditional MIDI workflow supplemented with proper playlists and loop record to playlists function than something new and different.

[tothrec2]

+1

[cqd]

We need to be able to draw proper curves in the automation lanes too..

[sleepingtiger]

+1

[skylar_battles]

cqd, what do you mean by that?

Also, Cymian maybe change the title to "MIDI and Instrument" tracks so it's super clear :) ?

Just called as I'm really trying to make this happen and again, I'd encourage anyone who really is interested to do the same. It took less than 10 minutes

If for whatever reason the implementation has to be different, Pro Tools could create a new MIDI track with correct routing for each loop pass, but I feel like undo states could be an issue since track deleting can't be undone. Also, this method would also only be viable for use with VI loop recording/comping rather than recording the audio of an hardware synthesizer and MIDI data) whether or not you are sending the MIDI data to it externally to trigger it "from the desk," or playing the instrument by touching it and also capturing the MIDI data in Pro Tools.

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

cqd, what do you mean by that?

Also, Cymian maybe change the title to "MIDI and Instrument" tracks so it's super clear :) ?

Just called as I'm really trying to make this happen and again, I'd encourage anyone who really is interested to do the same. It took less than 10 minutes

If for whatever reason the implementation has to be different, Pro Tools could create a new MIDI track with correct routing for each loop pass, but I feel like undo states could be an issue since track deleting can't be undone. Also, this method would also only be viable for use with VI loop recording/comping rather than recording the audio of an hardware synthesizer and MIDI data) whether or not you are sending the MIDI data to it externally to trigger it "from the desk," or playing the instrument by touching it and also capturing the MIDI data in Pro Tools.

I'm hoping for a general MIDI/Instrument track update, with playlists, selectable automation curves (doesn't have to just be CCs, right?), an articulation mapping/management system (like Cubase and Logic. It's really just scripting), and the ability to open the targeted Instrument plug-in (if available - thinking of the hardware synth ppl) from the MIDI Editor. I just bought AudioBros' new choir instrument, and if PT had articulation mapping, it looks like it would be a lot easier to use .

[skylar_battles]

What do you mean by selectable automation curves? I just tested on MIDI volume, and it seems the first 5 pencil tools work the same way they do on audio volume.

Not familiar with those features in Logic and Cubase so I can't comment, but could you not achieve the same in MIDI event list? Not sure what you mean "by the ability to open the targeted instrument plugin"?

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

What do you mean by selectable automation curves? I just tested on MIDI volume, and it seems the first 5 pencil tools work the same way they do on audio volume.

The Parabolic and S-Curve pencil tools don't work in the MIDI Editor or for most automation. The manual only states that you can use them in the tempo ruler (and maybe for cross-fades?) , and I think that's what we need. What would be really handy would be to allow parabolic (or just curves) in the automation (especially MIDI CC) lanes, with a center weight so that you could adjust the curve (the same way you can in the Crossfade window, but in the lane)

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

Not familiar with those features in Logic and Cubase so I can't comment, but could you not achieve the same in MIDI event list?

The Articulation Switching feature -once you use it (largely for orchestral instruments where you may want to change quickly from short articulations to legato notes, to plucked, etc)- you want to keep using it. The event list sort of kind of could let you do things, but with a lot of us who are working on a deadline, that's not an efficient method at all. An articulation/expression map system allows you to choose an if/then logic on an automation lane, customized for each VI (3rd parties do create these, as well as some of the developers). If you select "sustained" on the lane for a string instrument, the map would switch the instrument to play sustained notes. If you wanted to end on a strong short note, add in the control for that right before the note, and it switches the instrument. Come back with a pizzicato articulation on the next bar, etc... and because it's a lane, you can see it right under your notes in the editors, and adjust accordingly, since you usually want to switch between notes.

The thing is, the developers of these sample libraries don't all use the same method of switching (and some let you select the method). But a lot of them use key-switches (ie MIDI notes that are outside of the range of the instrument) Like a violin, which has a high register, might have keys C0-C1 assigned to change the articulations. But the cello or double-bass in the same library would be voiced in those lower keys, so their key-switches might be up at C5-C6. But either way, if the switches are on MIDI notes, then if you transpose your song or the part, you end up also transposing any key-switches you made as well, and then they trigger the wrong articulations. With the mapping on a lane, you can transpose the MIDI notes on the track, but because the key-switches are programmed in a lane, they wouldn't be affected by the Transpose command, and would still fire off the right notes to change the articulations in the instruments. Also, because every developer, and instrument has their own way of enabling these switches (some features are CC triggered, some Mod Wheel, some Program Change), it's a pain to remember them all, much less to copy-paste. With Articulation mapping, you can (for example) have a section of several string instruments, and just click (or drag between the tracks) when you want: Sustain, Legato, Sul Ponte, Staccato, Staccatisimo, Spiccato, Pizzicato, Col Legno, etc... and not have to worry about which protocol each instrument is using, because the map/DAW will see "Sustain" on the 1st Violins and know that "Sustain" is in this map, and it triggers the correct key or controller, and then it sees "Sustain" on the Celli track, and it knows that "Sustain" for that instrument means trigger it's respective controller or notes.

You do still have to set up each instrument (and as I said, 3rd party devs like Babylon Waves, make a whole business out of making these maps) but once it's done, it smooths your workflow by magnitudes.

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

Not sure what you mean "by the ability to open the targeted instrument plugin"?

When I'm in the MIDI editor, and I'm editing a track, sometimes I need to access the VI and either change something inside of it, or check a setting (like, portamento legato happens at velocities under xx). In Pro Tools right now, I have to go back to the main Edit Window (or Mix window, whatever), find the VI in the insert slot, and click it to open (I could, and do, use a shortcut to open Insert A on selected track, but you need to make sure the track is selected in the main Edit/Mix windows). When I was trying out Cubase, there was a button, or trigger or something in their MIDI Editor that you could click (or shortcut) that would open the VI on the track you were editing (or had notes from selected, if multiple VIs). Very handy.

[take77]

Thanks for the insights Kerry. You're so frickin' massive man! lol
Massively helpful & talented that is.

Appreciate the know-how.
Just sending you something in return for the effort put into your comments & responses.