Mbox Pro "Inserts" vs "Hardware inserts"

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Think about your signal: where it comes out of the interface, what you do with it, where you send it back to the interface.

Just to repeat myself...

[John_Toolbox]

Hi Gogojoe, These guys are all trying to help you, I realize you are frustrated with trying to get this to work, but they have stated everything you need to know to understand this and I think you are focusing too much on the wrong parts of their posts.

I think we need to break this down into smaller chunks of information to help you better understand. Please don't be offended if you already know this, I just want to start from scratch and go through this one step at a time.

So, question 1: do you have an insert Y cable like the one in the image attached to this post?

[Carl Kolchak]

Originally Posted by John_Toolbox

So, question 1: do you have an insert Y cable like the one in the image attached to this post?

I think the most likely candidate is that the cable is incorrectly wired.

He made it pretty clear in his first post that he understands his interface has an insert point, that is pre-DAW, and that the DAW also allows for plug-in inserts, and hardware inserts using matched I/O.

The only grey areas are the reliability of the Y-lead, the hardware compressor, and interface insert point.

As previously mentioned, those can all be "trouble-shooted" without Pro Tools even being launched (the procedures have already been detailed in an earlier post).

This is a hardware frustration, no point being frustrated with the Pro Tools software - on this occasion

[Darryl Ramm]

So let me guess you actually have a *keyboard* connected to a line-in on the back of the Mbox 3 Pro? (if not you have other problems). And you are trying to get a *preamp* hardware insert working that is in the Mic preamp side of the input channel. That insert won't ever work unless you are going into the Mic input. The most simple troubleshooting would have shown this is not working: as suggested multiple times inserting the TRS plug would not have broken the circuit... you did not even check that right? The documentation I pointed you at before describes the *preamp* insert, but I get that if you are new to all this that explanation may not be clear.. the Mbox 3 Pro schematics in other places/white papers should make that clear, as would just some experience/knowledge of how these type of inserts are normally used.

The reason folks did not spot this straight away is nobody would normally do what you are trying to do. You don't use the insert for a line level source. You just plug the keyboard into the compressor input, plug the compressor output into the back panel line input of the Mbox 3 Pro and you are done. Just like you would with a PA or tape recorder or anything else.

[John_Toolbox]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

The reason folks did not spot this straight away is nobody would normally do what you are trying to do. You don't use the insert for a line level source, there is just no need. You just plug the keyboard into the compressor input, plug the compressor output into the back panel line input of the Mbox 3 Pro and you are done. Just like you would with a PA or tape recorder or anything else.

I think you nailed it Darryl. The Mbox inputs automatically switch between mic/line/inst level based on what you plug into them.
When used as intended, the insert signal flow looks like this:

Mic input -> Mic Pre -> Insert send -> External box -> Insert return -> AD Converter -> DAW input

My guess is that the inserts only work when you are using a mic, meaning the insert is ignored because the mbox detected a line level input, bypassing the mic pre.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by John_Toolbox

I think you nailed it Darryl. The Mbox inputs automatically switch between mic/line/inst level based on what you plug into them.
When used as intended, the insert signal flow looks like this:

Mic input -> Mic Pre -> Insert send -> External box -> Insert return -> AD Converter -> DAW input

My guess is that the inserts only work when you are using a mic, meaning the insert is ignored because the mbox detected a line level input, bypassing the mic pre.

Actually on the Mbox 3 Pro you have to manually switch (button on the front panel) to the rear panel line inputs.

This is a good case for why product documentation should always include a schematic. The schematics in the Mbox family white paper (http://www.avid.com/static/resources...logy_guide.pdf) should have been in the User Guide. In addition it would would have been great to also include example studio setup type schematics as used in other Avid documentation.

[John_Toolbox]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Actually on the Mbox 3 Pro you have to manually switch (button on the front panel) to the rear panel line inputs.

This is a good case for why product documentation should always include a schematic. The schematics in the Mbox family white paper (http://www.avid.com/static/resources...logy_guide.pdf) should have been in the User Guide. In addition it would would have been great to also include example studio setup type schematics as used in other Avid documentation.

Thanks for that link Darryl. I think the schematics in that PDF should be painted on the top of the unit! This is definitely a case where a picture is worth 1000 words.

[LesPaul2550]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Actually on the Mbox 3 Pro you have to manually switch (button on the front panel) to the rear panel line inputs.

This is a good case for why product documentation should always include a schematic. The schematics in the Mbox family white paper (http://www.avid.com/static/resources...logy_guide.pdf) should have been in the User Guide. In addition it would would have been great to also include example studio setup type schematics as used in other Avid documentation.

GREAT Link!!! Also has the signal flow diagram for a regular MBox (3) like mine.

That answers the question from the original post...
The correct way to use the inserts on your interface are only when using the mic in, not line in.

[jeffro]

Thanks for sharing that doc (it's linked from the Mbox Pro Docs KB). The section about Connecting Inserts in the Mbox Pro User Guide agrees with this:

Mbox Pro provides a total of four insert jacks (Inserts 1–4) for inserting external processing devices such as an EQ or a compressor between the input channel’s onboard mic preamp and the onboard analog to digital convertor.

So that's why the compressor (Insert 3) didn't affect your keyboard (Line Input 3).

If you want to use your compressor on your keyboard you can do one of the following...

• Keyboard > Compressor > Mbox Pro Line Input = this will print the effect
• Keyboard > Mbox Pro Line Input with a Hardware Insert on your Audio Track = this will affect playback
• Keyboard > Mbox Pro Line Input to an Aux Track (with a Hardware Insert) routed to an Audio Track (like Albee recommended) = this will print the effect

[LesPaul2550]

Originally Posted by jeffro

• Keyboard > Mbox Pro Line Input to an Aux Track (with a Hardware Insert) routed to an Audio Track (like Albee recommended) = this will print the effect

Keep in mind this last method can add additional latency since you're causing and additional D to A then A to D conversion but it is another nice way to do it.