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  #1  
Old 08-24-2000, 05:24 PM
smashannon smashannon is offline
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Default Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

Will a faster processor make for faster bouncing to SCSI HD's?
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  #2  
Old 08-24-2000, 05:26 PM
Corey Shay Corey Shay is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

No. Bounce takes place in real time.
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2000, 05:21 PM
smashannon smashannon is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

Thanks for the reply Corey but I can bounce a 60 sec stereo file to disk ALOT faster than real time...and that's with a G3 233 processor in a 7300. That's why I'm curious to know if the bounce speed is a limitation of SCSI or processor.
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Old 08-27-2000, 02:36 PM
Danny Caccavo Danny Caccavo is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

It's "bounce" vs "copy".

"bounce to disk" is real time.

Sure, a faster processor will make "duplicate" and "consolidate region" much faster. And also "save a copy as" with files.

I'll tell ya, there are times when I miss the non real time bounce from ProDeck...<g>.

dc
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  #5  
Old 08-27-2000, 03:43 PM
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Arno Peeters Arno Peeters is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

I think smashannon uses an Audiomedia with PT 4.3.xx ?



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  #6  
Old 08-27-2000, 05:15 PM
Mark Wheaton Mark Wheaton is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

This whole Bounce issue confuses me. Many people seem surprised that ProTools TDM is a real time bounce. To me it makes perfect sense.
First a definition to clarify my understanding of this issue: I use bounce to disk to imprint edit changes, plug-ins, fades etc into a new version of the file (Mix out the song)
The advantage of TDM plugins is that the original file is unchanged. You can pass through the plug-in and listen to it, adjust, save your automation moves and still go back to the original unchanged file without having to re-load it from disk.
A non-real time bounce is actually a change to the file rewriting it with the processing imbedded. Usually it automatically replaces your old file although that file still resides on the disk you must reload it to get back to it unless you duplicated the track: in other words; you go through more steps to insure that you can get back to the original. And each change you make means a new file on the hard drive.In addition, the process of doing a non-realtime alteration of the file (recalculating it) is a different audio process from passing your audio through the dsp in real time much like passing your mix through an outboard processor box.
Would you like faster than real time passes through your high end vintage Tube Compressor? Sure we would but not if it means a sacrifice in quality.
I could see where processors and software could get so good they surpass the quality of real time processing through dedicated DSP chips, but until someone can convince me that host processing is actually better quality than dedicated DSP I will still believe that real time is better.
The main advantage to faster than real time processing is that it is cheaper.
But is it better?
Someone with a less naive understanding of dsp technology, please educate us!

[This message has been edited by Mark Wheaton (edited August 27, 2000).]
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2000, 05:50 PM
smashannon smashannon is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

Arno is correct, we are importing music and effects SDII files and recording voiceovers for radio and TV spots using AMIII and PT 4.1.1. This setup is pure dynamite for commercials!! Output goes straight to CD so the AMIII is only used for vocal recording and monitoring. I did not realize that TDM bounced in real time. My bounces in the current config on a 7300 upgraded to G3 233 happen about twice as fast as real time. Sorry for the confusion. I'd still like to know if I can speed up bounces with a faster processor. It's nice being able to work faster than real time!
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Old 08-27-2000, 08:22 PM
Compression Records Compression Records is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

This is an interesting issue that has me puzzled. Mark Wheaton has a good point, but it applies to the analogue world. In the digital domaine, you'd think (and AudioSuite is a clear example) that a program should be able to calculate the behaviour of, say, a compressor (or 10) times the tracks number and automation data. That should be accomplished by the computer's processor (which makes me put my eyes on some of those dual processor puppies), and therefore the bounce process could be dramatically sped up compared to the old-fashioned real-time TDM. Suffice to say that the next year oughta be quite interesting, in light of processor-based apps.

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  #9  
Old 08-28-2000, 10:36 PM
Kevin Windrem Kevin Windrem is offline
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Default Re: Faster Processor=Faster Bounce???

I agree with Marco. As long as the algorithm is identical and the precision of the processor is the same as the DSP, you should get identical results. That's what digital is all about. It may not be perfect, but it is repeatable.

The general purpose computer approach is to take as long as necessary to do the processing. PowerMix and Audio Suite prove that this approach can be much faster than real time. As demands increase, this approach will eventually fall below real time, but it still produces results, just not as fast.

The real time approach relies on enough processing power and a constant stream of audio to bounce the mix. But, if you miss a calculation you're dead. To insure this never occurs, DSP cycles often go unused. This approach is essential if you are using any outboard gear as inserts, or if you are streaming audio into Pro Tools.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to go back to the good ol' days of AM III + PowerMix. Mixing is ALWAYS real time and you need all the DSP cycles to keep it that way.

The only time that a non-realtime solution is benificial is during a bounce. A faster processor could equal a faster bounce for simle stuff. In many cases I'd welcome the option to switch audio engines and bounce faster like we could do with PT 4.


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