Upgrade help: Guitar instr. pre (Avalon, etc) vs. simple DI

[cleft]

Thanks to everyone here I've once again got the upgrade bug. I'll soon be purchasing a new A/D (haven't decided between Lucid or Apogee) and have a quick question about an instrument pre for electric guitar and passive bass:

I'm VERY tempted to get an Avalon U5 to use as an instrument pre. However, if I end up post-processing with a Pod 2.0 or Amplitube, am I basically killing any benefit of the Avalon by using gear that's really meant to enhance an "uncolored" signal? Would I be just as well off buying a cheap DI like a Countryman 85 or even an Art Studio V3 pre? Or is the benefit of the Avalon THAT much better (ex: I'd get a line level signal to run directly to the new A/D, etc).

If it matters, I play mostly emo/math rock type of stuff... no crunchy metal or crisp Jazz.

Any thoughts before I run out and buy both to A/B? I'll be sure to post my results if I do... I'm very curious.

[cleft]

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[cleft]

The more I look into this, the more I'm running in circles. Once again, here's the short of it:

I'm currently recording electric guitar through a Pod 2.0 into my Digi001. I'm not terribly happy with the sound. I've also tried Amplitube. I have about $1500 towards upgrades and I'm considering a nice "tube warmer" pre like the Avalon U5. I'll also be updating my A/Ds to the Lucid 9624.

Basically, there's not an easy answer to this problem. I hear the U5 will help, but may not be a great improvement. I'm DEFINITELY going to try some options and test things out.

So if anyone has found themselves in the same predicament... feel free to chime in on what you would do.

Enjoy your weekend.

[norton]

just my 2 cents.... but the only way i've gotten good guitar sounds was with a mic on an amp. i find the pod to be very sonically obvious as the pod, but i have heard some pretty damn convincing sounds from amplitube.

art mic pre's are better than nothing for sure, but nothing too special, but they will distort for you.

[nostatic]

My favorite tone is 2 mics in front of a Bogner Shiva, but these days that isn't palusible in my situtation. What I run now is guitar (Warmoth strat with Fralins) into a Summit TD-100 Tube direct box/preamp. This goes into a Summit TLA-50 Tube leveling amp. Then to my Mackie 1642 for routing to an Apogee Rosetta, then either to a MOTU 896 (DP) or Digi001 (PT). To get the tones I want, I use Amplitube. I *do not* track with the plug in enabled...I record dead clean and flat and figure out what I like afterwards. I usually have an idea of the tone I'm going for though, and I alter my attack while playing accordingly. It takes some practice and experience to be able to track dead clean and predict what you need to do to get the nuances in tone, but I've been playing a looong time.

To me the advantage of the TD-100/TLA-50 is some warmth from the tube and a bit of compression. This provides a nice fat signal for Amplitube to work with. If you just use a cheap direct box I think the quality of signal you're working with is lower. With amps (and amp simulators expecially), garbage in, garbage out. I have been really happy with the Summit gear (www.summitaudio.com)

[bouncing balls]

Hmm? Good question.
I think its a trade off. Your right you will color your sound and somewhat defeat the purpose of a "top shelf" Pre or converter if you use any kind of processor or plug in. Personally (what do I know- aw long story) I would fight for the best tone in- and work with the recorded sound the best a person can with EQ and/or proper mixing and mastering. But, first and foremost, "go for the gusto" when it comes to performance. When the "chips are down" very few listeners give a rip about what was used- but REALLY dig a great performance or composition for the sake of music and musicianship.
Good Luck!
PS. I've heard some tunes that kick royal booty on some lo-fi equipment and to the contrary- we have all heard some real clams on some "state of the art gear". Hooya!!!

[M Lawrence]

go for a good di, whichever way you go. i've got a us strat plus w/fralin vintage hots (OUCH!) & a '61 reissue (about 10 yrs old, WITH a nitrocellulose finish!) les paul/sg, both of which i run through an aquilar db900 (tube di with a jensen tranny) & an fmr rnc into my trademark 60, which i then mic with either an sm57 or baby bottle, into a mic pre (jensen mic input tranny) on my speck electronics console. i also use the di & rnc straight into the board, for either clean, or doin' the same as nostatic does. the aguilar in front of my tech21 really adds glass, shimmer, & a whole heap o' warmth to the amp. you wanna stay away from the "countryman" style di's. if you wanna get THE di that covers all bases, get little labs' ibp analog phase alignment tool! this thing, at about $450, rocks!!!

http://www.littlelabs.com/ibp.html

besides being a great di, it lets you run a seperate line to mic an amp, & then lets you adjust the phase between the two until there ain't none! it's the only box of it's kind, and it's hard to imagine any studio getting by without one!

ml

[Notefarm]

Depending on the guitar tone I need to achieve I have found a good work around sound with the POD and then using Amplitube after recording the track., for final tweaking. I find that combo to work well. Often I will go POD to DBX 576 then Amplitube.

Have fun with gear
Peace
NoteFarm

[Rick Irvine]

I've just finished testing out a couple of Radial DIs.and a Presonus Tube Pre on my 74' precision.I tried the active phantom,and the passive.Both perform well,and use Jensen transformers,but I'm not so sure I like the sound of transformers on Bass.Even a cheap transformerless ART tube channel sounded more transparent.While I'm sure that the Radial stuff is more phase coherent,which apparently is very important for bass,and the DIs were very uncoloured,they just seemed a little more cloudy.It's the same with my Meek VC1,transformer input,sounds a little murky.My Telefunken is nice and punchy,but I need a DI to get into it.
Check out the new presonus Tube Pre,It blows away my DA 7 pres,my Telefunken V376,001 pres and my ART stuff for bass.
This pre looks a little hokey,it's you tipical,under $200.00,poject studio,tube pre.
It has a drive control to add even harmonic distorion from the tube to the output,I turned that all the way off.I just used the gain control.
This thing had a really nice deep,transparent,and almost elastic quality,that I really loved.It almost seemed like there was a tiny bit of compression there.The difference was immediatley obvious.For a couple hundred,you can't go wrong. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[cleft]

This is great feedback everyone... thanks. I did some looking around over the weekend and I'd definitely like to learn more about the Presonus stuff. A Blue Tube/Max combo would be a LOT cheaper than a Summit Tube/Compressor combo. Again, I'll have to take a listen to see if the quality difference justifies the cost.

If anyone wants to throw in some more opinions, I'd love to hear them. Thanks again.