It's simple: don't upgrade.

[BasketCase]

Originally Posted by abt

Personal responsibility like researching the product to make sure it fits my needs based on what is available at the time, tell me where would someone have found out this information a month ago and who would have thought oh well I won't wait a couple of weeks I'll just buy it anyway.

It's not a case of "it does what I purchased it to do" but what it can do and if the path to get there is reasonable. I don't think too many people would agree that a $1k upgrade cost, with no warning, for a product that was purchased a month ago is reasonable.

So let me get this straight... you purchased a system based on what it "might be able to do" in the future and how much "it might cost" in the future? Clearly you are not psychic.

You either purchased something on the blind hope that it might do what you need it to... eventually. Or you purchased something that did what you needed it to do. Which exactly is it? Either you made a really stupid purchase or you got what you paid for. Your argument really makes no sense.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by QuikDraw

I'm one of those hobbyests. Got into Pro Tools with LE 5.1. Upgraded to 5.3 so I could use WinXP. 5.1 had everything that I needed to get my very simple rock recordings done.

I upgraded to PTLE 8.x when my old Pentium IV machine died, and I had no compatible box to plug my Digi 001 into, so I got an MBox II Mini just so I could open my old sessions for $299. I was happy. Big upgrade from 5.3, and cheap too!

Then PT9 came out. I sprang for another $299 for the crossgrade so I could use 3rd party hardware. I picked up a Mackie 1640i for another grand. Best system I ever had, and it's exactly what I need to get my recordings done.

Will I get PT10? Probably not. I don't think the $299 is an outrageous upgrade price, it's just money I don't need to spend. PT10 has some great features that would make my hobbyest life easier, but I don't need them. I can, and probably will, wait for PT11 even though as a computer geek I'm dying to "get the latest stuff."

So far over the past 11 years my total outlay to Digidesign/Avid has been $1600. Not a bad investment for a hobbyest.

I don't expect companies to give me free stuff or even a big discount on their new products just because I recently purchased their previous line of products. The recently purchased stuff works fine. If it didn't do what I needed it to do I wouldn't have purchased it. A newer version in existence does not instantly render my perfectly working system useless.

Thank you. I knew there were people out there with their head on their shoulders

[BasketCase]

Originally Posted by abt

Although we don't agree you do make me laugh! haha

(ps not sarcasm)

For what it is worth, I do understand why you are cranky with the situation... and you probably aren't in the same boat.

What did AVID/Digidesign do in the past in such an event?

[WernerF]

Originally Posted by BasketCase

Indeed, you are the pinnacle of modern man and the leader of equality.





"PROTOOLS FOR EVERYONE!!"

Oh man, it's so great when someone finally understands you. Thanks man!!





So contrary.

[jimmyl]

"Prematurity would be expecting a business to not act in the best of the business. Be it profit or otherwise... It is contrary that apparently the "mature" thing to do is constantly whinge like a child on internet forums because a company isn't doing something that fits your wallet. You could always exercise your right as a consumer, be mature about it... not buy it, put your old PT rig on ebay and leave the DUC forever. Just a thought.

You seem to be pointing out the obvious for the benefit of your own argument. This really isn't that expensive. You either weren't around or have forgotten how much HD systems were back in the day. The new HDx system is a bargin in comparison... without even considering the last 10 years of inflation! But apparently "us" studio owners are out staggering amounts?"

You should perhaps re-read the original post, stay on topic and being the new member on this forum as you are, one would think you would be a bit more humble. But that's just me. My remarks are in regards to the original authors comments, as I stated at the start. Not all that expensive is in regards to the good'ol LE crowd. The $300 to $600 for an upgrade is small potatoes when compared to the thousands of dollars that studios and pro users are facing, such as yourself; that was clearly stated. You made my point, regarding the costs of HD systems back in the day thank you. Again, the second point that seems to be at issues for many, and rightly so, is the lack of Avids commitment to all it's customers, yourself included. Avid has clearly shifted their business plan and has taken many by surprise. Their business practices, profit margins and share holder status is not what the topic was addressing. Avids business plan is unknown to all of us, speculation is left of another post. Not purchasing the upgrade and waiting seems to be the general opinion of most users. Selling equipment on ebay and leaving the forum was never an issue mention, again stay with the flow of the thread. Making and mixing is what were ALL here for and why were here, were not into making personal remarks against other members. If you feel it's necessary, write on brother

[Culhane]

' No more amateur studios running "the industry standard"... '

I'm sure the competetion totally concurs with this vision.
All professionals are amateurs first. If I was Avid I would be delighted if all studens/schools and 'amateurs' would cut their DAW teeth on a basic version of ProTools, establishing them as likely future customers as they reinforce and build their presence in the field. Driving users, including long time customers, away with some exclusive 'professionals only' policy would be a staggering strategic blunder IMO.

But, hey, whatever. The good news is there are lots of options.
The polcies, including upgrade pricing, that built Pro Tools to the 'industry statdard' did seem to work for a while. But maybe that 'bright' new marketing manager is on to something. Good luck with that.

[BasketCase]

Originally Posted by jimmyl

"Prematurity would be expecting a business to not act in the best of the business. Be it profit or otherwise... It is contrary that apparently the "mature" thing to do is constantly whinge like a child on internet forums because a company isn't doing something that fits your wallet. You could always exercise your right as a consumer, be mature about it... not buy it, put your old PT rig on ebay and leave the DUC forever. Just a thought.

You seem to be pointing out the obvious for the benefit of your own argument. This really isn't that expensive. You either weren't around or have forgotten how much HD systems were back in the day. The new HDx system is a bargin in comparison... without even considering the last 10 years of inflation! But apparently "us" studio owners are out staggering amounts?"

You should perhaps re-read the original post, stay on topic and being the new member on this forum as you are, one would think you would be a bit more humble. But that's just me. My remarks are in regards to the original authors comments, as I stated at the start. Not all that expensive is in regards to the good'ol LE crowd. The $300 to $600 for an upgrade is small potatoes when compared to the thousands of dollars that studios and pro users are facing, such as yourself; that was clearly stated. You made my point, regarding the costs of HD systems back in the day thank you. Again, the second point that seems to be at issues for many, and rightly so, is the lack of Avids commitment to all it's customers, yourself included. Avid has clearly shifted their business plan and has taken many by surprise. Their business practices, profit margins and share holder status is not what the topic was addressing. Avids business plan is unknown to all of us, speculation is left of another post. Not purchasing the upgrade and waiting seems to be the general opinion of most users. Selling equipment on ebay and leaving the forum was never an issue mention, again stay with the flow of the thread. Making and mixing is what were ALL here for and why were here, were not into making personal remarks against other members. If you feel it's necessary, write on brother

I am staying right on topic, and have been. The flow of the thread is You whinge because you don't get what you want... followed by me saying "you're an idiot... nothing has changed in the last decade".

My HD system cost $18,000 when I purchased it. This new system is pennies in comparison. Your point seems to be "I paid $18,000 for my old system. I should be able to get the new one for $500." or something akin to that. It is downright LAUGHABLE! Bahahah haahaha

It is like thinking you have the right to sleep with your son's girlfriend because well... you are his father.

While you are here pining in your coffee over the cost of a new system and stamping your feet like an angry kid, the professionals in this industry are probably calculating the figures to invest in protools HDx. Will they do it? I don't know. Will you do it? I have no idea.... but just like the big investment I made in HD, I will calculate if it is economically viable and worthwhile. My HD system has paid for itself many times over. AVID has committed to me exactly as I wanted. If you purchased a HD system expecting AVID to do you favours until the end of eternity you are a downright fool. That seems to be precisely what you are suggesting in your posts.

You seem determined to launch a contrary point. Avid has f&%ked you over because HD is done and dusted? No it isn't... it still works... they still support it... and they still repair it... or that Avid has f&$ked you over because a decade after the release of HD they have a new system that costs less than HD did, yet with considerably more features? ...and you have to pay for it????

I'm sorry... trying to boycott a purchase on the grounds you are setting out is LAUGHABLE! To think that AVID's economic figures don't play into this thread is STUPID. You guys think stamping your feet and refusing to buy a new system will make them drop their prices just goes to show how much you are "looking out for your own neck". How the heck to you know Avid is even in the position to do that economically?

[BasketCase]

Originally Posted by Culhane

' No more amateur studios running "the industry standard"... '

I'm sure the competetion totally concurs with this vision.
All professionals are amateurs first. If I was Avid I would be delighted if all studens/schools and 'amateurs' would cut their DAW teeth on a basic version of ProTools, establishing them as likely future customers as they reinforce and build their presence in the field. Driving users, including long time customers, away with some exclusive 'professionals only' policy would be a staggering strategic blunder IMO.

But, hey, whatever. The good news is there are lots of options.
The polcies, including upgrade pricing, that built Pro Tools to the 'industry statdard' did seem to work for a while. But maybe that 'bright' new marketing manager is on to something. Good luck with that.

That would be all well and good, but that isn't how protools came to fame. It existed as a high end professional audio platform long before the cheap "student" orientated versions hit the shelves. The original protools offered 4 tracks and cost $6000 in 1991 money! Protools MIX was everywhere in 1998... protools LE or "FREE" didn't even exist then.

Even to this day, any academic institute that is worthwhile teaches on professional HD systems... and it isn't like protools MP has suddenly disappeared from the market. What we are seeing is exactly what everyone was asking for... for Protools LE to be more like TDM... its happened... and it costs money. It really isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things.

[thin ice]

I think most people here want Avid to be successful and continue to improve Pro Tools. Having an HD system by no means makes you a professional and owning le doesn't brand you an amature. I am just sad that a bad pricing decision is overshadowing a major new release. I guess many of us are sole traders experiencing budget squeezes and not big facilities with bottomless pockets. This makes cost to upgrade looks completely unreasonable in relation to previous releases. Surely a more realistic price would bring more funds in and keep a loyal user base on side.

[Marsdy]

Originally Posted by a.beck

Nope.

I wouldn't bet on it.

Plenty of us, if the Avid store being down the other day due to so much traffic was any indication.

Sorry, already using PT10. It's a really good release, and well worth the price of admission, IMO. I honestly don't understand all the hubbub... just because their upgrade pricing has been one way in the past isn't a very compelling reason to get all up in arms about it not being that way this time.

I do agree with your basic premise though: if you think it's more money than it's worth, don't buy. Simple indeed.

Anyway, I've got work to do. Cheers. :)

So presumably if every shop in town raised their prices by 200% overnight without explanation you'd be OK with that?