how to copy an amp's tone

[singtall]

this is not the end all be all of how to do it, but it's how i do it.

1) first i listen to the clip in question for awhile, making note of the thickness of the distortion. distortion thickness is the main thing that separates one amp from another in my book. any amp can be eq'd to sound like any other amp, but the feel won't be right, which effects how it distorts at lower gain.

in this example we will consider how to get most modern metal tones. because so many people use rectifiers and V30 loaded cabinets nowadays, i bring up that duo and choose the U67 mic which is about the smoothest sounding option.

another option is; since i have a million metal presets, i first determine which once sounds closest and start from there. (i know you were wondering how i pop out some presets that quick.)

2) next i add some speaker breakup. try anything between 2-5 and listen to what sounds best. you will find that it changes the mids. use this thing like an eq or amp tone knob, once you like the way it sounds, move on.

3) next i set the amp knobs around midway.

4) then i try different mic's and cabinets until i find the one that sounds closest to what i'm looking for. pay attention to the mids mostly. mic/cab will make a big difference in tone.

5) next tweak the amp tone controls until you are closer to the tone you are after. amp controls will have a little effect on tone. on some amps it really effects feel more than anything else.

6) finally i add in FX1 and use the 5 band graphic to tweak the lows and mids to get me there.

***if you can't get close to the tone in question by this point, then you are trying to capture something fairly difficult.***

7) we are now moving into expert mode. add FX2 and bring up a parametric eq. ask yourself what the real sound problem is.
A) is it too much fizzy highs? if so, then use the high control to shelf off all highs between 3khz-6khz. guitar speakers only reproduce so much highs and it usually stops around 5.5-6khz. anything more than that is usually being added by the mic.
B) too much lows. same thing, roll off some low end. start at 60 hz and work your way up to 180hz if necessary.
C) mids, ahhh the real problem. this is where the ear comes in. there are no rules here. boost or cut? whatever gets you closer to your magic tone.

i have tried using a frequency analyzer and i find that it is almost a waste of time. even if you play the same part on the exact same guitar and amp, it still looks different because of pick attach and other things. some guys like Benoni have had better luck with this method.

listen to your new preset and go back and forth between it and the clip until you think that you are close.

***save this preset.***

tweak some more. try different amp models. every cool new amp sound you get, save it with a different name or add a number after the new one you already have (version II, III, IV etc). this is an important step because some amps will effect the tone more than others. even if your first try was right, you may turn up several awesome presets from the new versions.

***if you can, play the same riff as the clip and record it. use the re-amp ability to really listen critically. what it sounds like when you play it and the recorded tone is sometimes very different when you listen back.***

finally, help a brother out. once you get good at making presets, help other people make presets. you will feel good in doing good deeds.

[Mister_Riff]

Nice guide!

I've learned alot from looking at presets that people post and going:"why is that effect there?, what does that EQ do".

Sometimes it's just sheer luck too ... A while back TLTD and you posted that preset that you both worked on. I went:"hmm that chorus seems cool, need to try it out on my favorite preset" and I instantly had a tone I had been searching for ... So THX for that!

The more you tweak presets, the better you'll get at it ... Also you'll have an entire library of saved settings that make your life a LOT easier!

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by singtall

this is not the end all be all of how to do it, but it's how i do it.

Thanks 'singtall', after I saw this I immediately I printed this out . Unfortunately, my ear is nowhere near as finely tuned as yours. I wouldn't have a hope of recognizing the "thickness" of distortion ... well not yet.

And without a trained ear I think I'll need to use a frequency analyser, though it will only be the bluecataudio and not a good one like Benoni uses.

But it is a really good start for someone like me .

[Muzza_Boogie]

Thanks for the those pearls of wisdom Singtall

[dmock66]

Thanks Ross! GREAT information!

... although as stated above, I freely admit my ear is not as gifted as yours. However, this will be VERY helpful!

[Random Dude]

I have a different process, I usually start out by identifying a tone that I want to get and then I start tweaking and end up dialing it in how I like my amps to sound which is basically the frickin' same way every time. I find that this way I have 10 duplicate patches that have 'my' sound. :)

Seriously though this is a good way of doing it. The cab/mic comments are absolutely dead on which is why I have such a hard time with not being able to use 3rd party IR's. But to be fair the range of tones that the 11R has with the combinations is actually very good and while a few mics (like the SM57) are kind of disappointing at times there are a few that sound really good. But then again I tend to gravitate to a specific flavor anyway.

I also like the order of your steps, I sometimes bounce around a bit more than I should and end up getting lost, but that's usually when I'm trying to fine tune the patch.

Only thing that I would add that is constructive is to be aware of ear fatigue. I don't know how everyone else is with it, but I know that I can get to the point where I kind of lose track of where I am trying to go and I think that I have it and a day or two later I'll call it back up and it's absolutely wrong. I suppose that taking a break or two or working on an important patch over a series of days is probably the way for me to address that.

I do have a question though. One of the things that I really wanted to try with the 11R is creating patches while reamping. I figure that I could get a cut of the original, record myself playing along dry and then run it back through and tweak. I just haven't had time to do it.

[Benoni]

Originally Posted by singtall

i have tried using a frequency analyzer and i find that it is almost a waste of time.

What analyzer did you use?

I use a Waves PAZ analyzer that has a Freeze button so I can freeze the frequency response and the track I am modeling to.

Use of analyzers are common in mixing, especially when carving out ranges for each instrument, and the same principle applies to modeling a guitar tone.

I use an analyzer because the end result will be more "accurate" than modeling by ear alone, because unless you have the same room and monitors as me, the end result will 'sound' different on another system - though the frequency response will be the same.

Its is also true that even if I get a tone exact using an analyzer, the sound will also vary in other rooms, and on other systems - however, it will be accurate regardless of room or speakers used; whether that equates to a good sound or bad sound on other systems is inconsequential to the process and frequency response.

I guess it comes down to epistemology(loosely used), but as long as then end result is what you/others want, then accuracy may not be of concern - at the end of the day the perceived sound of each individual is what is really important for most, not the credulity of accuracy of frequency response.

[derker]

Originally Posted by Random Dude

Seriously though this is a good way of doing it. The cab/mic comments are absolutely dead on which is why I have such a hard time with not being able to use 3rd party IR's.

Not to be a nag, but I agree 200%. I got a chance to mess with RedWirez's recent release of mixIR2 at my buddy's house, with his Axe Ultra. What an awesome piece of software! You can combine virtually as many cab impulses as you'd like, as well as mixing in their new Neve 1073 EQ impulses, impedance curves, etc. I can't say I know how to use all of it, but the possibilities are endless and we were easily able to create some killer sounding combinations and export them as new impulses to be uploaded onto his Ultra.

I like the cab possibilities that are currently on 11r, theres no doubt that they sound great and are great representatives of their physical counterparts. But there's something to be said about that level of control, and the addition of far-field and ambient mics are something I wish I had.

[singtall]

Benoni, i actually tried the same wavs plugin as you use. i played the riff the same way (as best as i could). in the end, i spent a lot of time chasing eq spikes and ended up with something that looked pretty close, but sounded not too close.

for me, it's easier to make a preset on my headphones and have it sound the same on my headphones as the original clip. it may not line up perfectly on a frequency analyzer, but it sounds closer than anything else i can do with an analyzer.

i also find that my presets translate better on other people's gear. if you play the clip on your gear, then play my preset...it should be close, unless you are using some crazy guitar with nutjob pickups. lol.

[singtall]

hey Benoni, what setting are you using on the wavs analyzer? i am willing to give it another shot because i only tried once, with some frustration. if you could give me an overview of your process/settings i would appreciate it.