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  #1  
Old 05-18-2020, 03:51 PM
Bill Rigby Bill Rigby is offline
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Default Internal Film standard bussing versus DAPS Smpte

A question for the hive mind.
As a workflow I would like to create in the same template as in the send and return style of DAPS .
This approach rather than the Dolby Audio Bridge DAPS template which for a number of reasons makes my system unstable.
The thinking is , interacting with the use of surround ping pong delays, reverbs and other uses etc, whilst creating, requires internal bussing Of the Film standard routing.
My conflict of course is the fact that DAPS requires SMPTE standard for monitoring. Setting the output of Pro Tools I/O to SMPTE contradicts the fixed internal Film standard bussing.
I know I could do this is in a 2 step process , but in my mind this is counter intuitive.
Why is the internal bussing fixed, despite changing the output standard?
Is there something I have been missing all these years?
It has been this way since Pro Tools went surround.
Any solutions , workarounds folks?
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:47 PM
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bewk bewk is online now
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Default Re: Internal Film standard bussing versus DAPS Smpte

Alan Sallabank posted a video on this topic just today. See here It doesn’t answer the “why” but it does address a re-record workflow back into PT from DAPS.

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Old 05-18-2020, 11:36 PM
Bill Rigby Bill Rigby is offline
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Default Re: Internal Film standard bussing versus DAPS Smpte

Thanks Bewk.....
It does provide a work around... At the cost of another interface and Source elements software and re routing.
but really Avid, Why is this even a thing ???..
This internal bussing issue has been around forever and the workarounds are well established, but simply allowing the internal bus to follow the selected output bus for the various standards required would greatly improve flexibility and simplify workflows.
Can we put this as a feature request?
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:36 PM
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Ryan Young Ryan Young is offline
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Default Re: Internal Film standard bussing versus DAPS Smpte

For easier monitoring, I set up the Dolby Audio Bridge routing to be my ALT mix on my OMNI. Super simple. Now, rendering and getting back into Pro Tools, I haven't done that yet with this method.
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Internal Film standard bussing versus DAPS Smpte

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Young View Post
For easier monitoring, I set up the Dolby Audio Bridge routing to be my ALT mix on my OMNI. Super simple. Now, rendering and getting back into Pro Tools, I haven't done that yet with this method.

I've started doing the same, it's just a same that I can't use the alt button for a quick stereo down mix anymore!

I agree about the bus formats though. Short of creating just one standardised bus layout, being able to choice between the two in ever application seems like the easiest way to create some consistency throughout a system. The DAPS video makes me wonder if an aggregate device can exist with HDX and DAB. If DAB can be bidirectional, it might be possible to send rerenders straight from DAPS back to protools, instead of using another interface.
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  #6  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:11 PM
Bill Rigby Bill Rigby is offline
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Default Re: Internal Film standard bussing versus DAPS Smpte

On closer examination of the 3rd pro tools expert video on this, although it does solve a re rendering back into Pro Tools issue for loudness measurement, it still doesn’t provide the solution needed for a sensible workflow.
As this is posted under the Post Audio title ,I will explain further. ( although a large percentage of Post Audio folk are musicians as well, sometimes the fiscal division of workflows can seperate trains of thought and some work practice requirements may not be as obvious to others in a different workflow mindset )

Please forgive me if I am spelling out the bleeding obvious in the effort to clarify my thought process, I’ll try and do it in point form.

1. When composing most ( if not all) musicians work sympathetically with other content /Fx. (Especially without the interruptions of latency)
ie, Vocalist riding reverb decays, syncopating with rhythmic delays, pianist and pedal damping, guitarist and feedback etc..

2. A lot of Virtual Instruments I use are multichannel and are essentially content for creating beds.
Kontakt, Superior Drummer 3 , Omnisphere, RMC string splitter for guitars, Sound Particles etc

3. I use both the Stratus and Symphony R4 Surround Exponential Reverbs, Slapper by Cargo Cult ,Isono Anymix Pro,and Utilising send pans follows track pans is pretty standard for me when gluing things together.
Even when using stereo and mono tracks I’ll utilise surround outputs and internally created surround busses that follow the fixed internal Film standard.

4 Ideally the best case scenario would be to monitor real time through DAPS whilst creating so I can work in sympathy with evolving content (point 1).

5. I realise I can tracklay a session and then create a new one and import session data, split the multichannel files, reorder them and use them as beds , also I can use feature mono (and stereo of course) instruments as objects and mix and create the extra stereo return out of objects and utilise them for the 7.1.4 for content and reverbs.

6 . I have a 5.1, 12 core 3.2 ghz 64 gig Cheesegrator Mac with an HDX card.
With the send return method of DAPS I find I still have leftover DSP ( so far ) for AAX DSP based plugins and with 4 7.1.2 beds and 40 objects the Renderer is running around 30% usage of CPU.
Following Dolby’s instructions and utilising the Dolby Audio Bridge workflow for some reason gives me 6010 errors whereas the send return method is solid.

Any suggestions of creative routing to achieve a one session workflow described in point 4 would be extremely welcome.

Cheers,

Bill
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