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  #11  
Old 04-15-2020, 08:16 PM
Flyingrockstudios Flyingrockstudios is offline
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

I was just experimenting with this today. I used a NI Maschine via USB with Superior Drummer 3 plug in and a click. I kept hitting the beat early according to the MIDI notes recorded, but as a drummer I know I was playing closer than where the notes were landing. I started playing around with MIDI playback compensation in preferences and found that it also affects recording(at least visually). If I set the amount to 3000 samples then my quarter note hits landed pretty much consistently on the click on the resultant recording. And it played back correctly as well. Now if I left that 3000 sample setting on a song where the MIDI was already recorded with a setting of zero, then the notes played back late. So I can’t use this for stuff I’ve already started, but I’m going to start from this time forward and give it a try and see if this helps for future performances. I’ve been either quantizing a bit or just nudging/sliding my MIDI tracks thinking it was just me. But maybe not all me. There’s definitely something going on there with that setting.

PS. I am using an Ethernet to USB extender kit since my Mac is in the other room, so maybe that may affect MIDI latency in some way.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2020, 09:15 PM
Starcrash Starcrash is offline
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingrockstudios View Post
I was just experimenting with this today. I used a NI Maschine via USB with Superior Drummer 3 plug in and a click. I kept hitting the beat early according to the MIDI notes recorded, but as a drummer I know I was playing closer than where the notes were landing. I started playing around with MIDI playback compensation in preferences and found that it also affects recording(at least visually). If I set the amount to 3000 samples then my quarter note hits landed pretty much consistently on the click on the resultant recording. And it played back correctly as well. Now if I left that 3000 sample setting on a song where the MIDI was already recorded with a setting of zero, then the notes played back late. So I can’t use this for stuff I’ve already started, but I’m going to start from this time forward and give it a try and see if this helps for future performances. I’ve been either quantizing a bit or just nudging/sliding my MIDI tracks thinking it was just me. But maybe not all me. There’s definitely something going on there with that setting.

PS. I am using an Ethernet to USB extender kit since my Mac is in the other room, so maybe that may affect MIDI latency in some way.
Thank you! I had a feeling it wasn’t just me. I mostly work with recording live sources and when I use samplers, it’s often not necessarily musical. I work in film post-production. But I have been doing more music lately and working with VIs. I’ve always suspected that midi notes were being placed early on the timeline, but it was usually a matter of nudging the notes a bit. When it was REALLY off due to, I’m assuming, Delay Compensation I started messing around with these tests.

It seems to me that PT is miscalculating the system latency and placing the notes early. From what I understand, all DAWs calculate and compensate for system latency for any audio recording so I’m assuming it’s the same for midi. Otherwise, any audio recording would be late on the timeline.
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Last edited by Starcrash; 04-15-2020 at 10:01 PM.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2020, 12:46 AM
XJENSEN XJENSEN is offline
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

There is still this bug in the delay compensation with the HW buffer at startup. You must always start up Pro Tools with the lowest buffer possible (64 or 32), otherwise change it to that and restart Pro Tools and open the session. After that you can change it back to what you want. This is standard Pro Tools startup routine for me.

Also:

> Do you have LLM (Low Latency Monitoring) enabled?
> Do you have ADC (Automatic Delay Compensation) enabled?
> Make sure you didn't enter any offsets in Event>MIDI Track Offsets?
> Setup>Preferences>MIDI: Do you have delay compensation for External Devices enabled?
> Setup>Preferences>MIDI: Check the Global MIDI Playback Offset.
> Is there any kind of USB hub in between your computer and the keyboard?
> Do you have any MIDI real time properties applied (check both tracks and clips)?
> Did you enable/disable any user offsets or track delay compensation on individual tracks (bottom of Mix window)?
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2020, 06:50 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is online now
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

This MIDI thing has been happening like FOREVER with me, certainly since I bought HD Native. When I first discovered it I had to audio record myself on my phone to check that my playing wasn't as wild as Pro Tools was making me sound.

I don't understand why H/W Buffer setting should affect where the MIDI lands. It should just WORK.

Edit : I'm going to start a bug report with it. It's only taken me 10 years....
Case number 03927724

Last edited by midnightrambler; 04-17-2020 at 09:34 AM.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2020, 09:25 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is online now
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

https://youtu.be/w6k-FpX3p7o

I set up a click track and then played along on a USB keyboard, using the same sound. Note that using:

1. 32 buffer : the playback is not identical to the recording, but arguably close enough for 1980's MIDI

2. 1024 buffer : the playback is nothing like the recording
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2020, 10:09 AM
Starcrash Starcrash is offline
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

Wow, this is kind of crazy! This seems like a major fundamental issue that affects anyone who makes music with VIs. Maybe this is why there is so much quantized music made in Pro Tools haha! Record a part, sounds bad, quantize it!?
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2020, 10:19 AM
Starcrash Starcrash is offline
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

Here's the thing that bugs me. The notes are recorded EARLY on the timeline which seems very weird to me. If it's due to midi or usb keyboard latency, then shouldn't the notes be LATE?

There is the system latency, affected by buffer size, etc which PT should easily be able to calculate and compensate for by placing the notes earlier on the timeline by the exact amount. But then the usb/midi controller latency is the wild card, right? How can PT accurately compensate for that? Is it just moving the notes extra early by some arbitrary amount to estimate the usb/midi latency?

Personally, I'd prefer the notes to be a tad "behind the beat" rather than ahead! ;-)
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  #19  
Old 04-17-2020, 10:42 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is online now
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
Here's the thing that bugs me. The notes are recorded EARLY on the timeline which seems very weird to me. If it's due to midi or usb keyboard latency, then shouldn't the notes be LATE?

There is the system latency, affected by buffer size, etc which PT should easily be able to calculate and compensate for by placing the notes earlier on the timeline by the exact amount. But then the usb/midi controller latency is the wild card, right? How can PT accurately compensate for that? Is it just moving the notes extra early by some arbitrary amount to estimate the usb/midi latency?

Personally, I'd prefer the notes to be a tad "behind the beat" rather than ahead! ;-)
Yeah exactly - I've no idea why they turn up early, it's so weird/frustrating/annoying/awful.
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  #20  
Old 04-17-2020, 11:03 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is online now
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Default Re: MIDI notes out of sync caused by Delay Compensation?

Here'a another weird MIDI thing I can't quite get my head around, but I'm not sure if it's actually working as it should or if it's a bug.

I've set up a MIDI track, sent the MIDI to my external piano, then recorded the audio from the piano back into Tools. Look at the difference just switching delay compensation on makes, despite there being NO plugs to actually compensate for...why should this happen??


https://youtu.be/DILzT69ayQU
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