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  #31  
Old 07-08-2004, 02:01 PM
RKrizman RKrizman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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I believe that you seem to be thinking that the cost of an Icon is there because of its "size". Meaning, if it had smaller knobs, the price would drop in half and that's not realistic.

Who knows, at some point the price may drop in half as it is. I mean, it's only that expensive because Digi decided it would be, not because it's costing them much of anything to build it. They'e chosen the highest price point they thought they could get away with in light of the fact that closed code means no competition.

I'm not suggesting they would charge less because the knobs are smaller and thus saving them money! Not any more than the fact that a small footprint would mean less empty space on the underside of the control surface.

I think the real question is, if they are selling you less empty space is that worth more or less money?

-R
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  #32  
Old 07-08-2004, 02:07 PM
RKrizman RKrizman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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But hopefully you see my point.

If it were smaller, yet still $60K, you wouldn't buy one.

If it were the same size as it is, but priced at $20K, you would buy one.

So your argument is not really about size, it's about price.


Read it again.

What I said was :

"And no, I wouldn't buy it at 20k either, because at any price it's still not the right design for my needs. "

Don't kid yourself, Egghead. It is about size.

-R
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  #33  
Old 07-08-2004, 02:11 PM
RKrizman RKrizman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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By the same token, you'd probably be MUCH MUCH busier if you just cut your rate by 75%. Instead of charging $1,000.00/day, why not charge $100.00? You'd be booked 24/7/365. Just like $20K Icons will sell like hotcakes.

Do you get this?

PS Just giving you a hard time!
And who says I'll work for $1,000.00/day?

(and check your math).

-R
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  #34  
Old 07-08-2004, 02:18 PM
RKrizman RKrizman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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  #35  
Old 07-08-2004, 02:55 PM
The Eggman The Eggman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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Quote:
[

Fair enough. What would you change other than making it smaller?
Jeez, it's taken a lot to get to this point.

Don't try to make me make this more of an issue than I'm making it.
(that said, I have all kinds of ideas--but why should I tell some anonymous stranger )

-R
I figured you'd cop out when pressed for specifics!
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  #36  
Old 07-08-2004, 04:49 PM
FlorianE FlorianE is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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I think Florian is bascially "loving the one he's with". I don't gather that he's thinking of buying one. I too could work quite happily on an Icon and would probable see it as preferable to a mouse. But that's pretty much damning it with faint praise. I've been working happily on a Trident for years but I still have a long list of things I'd prefer were different.

Florian is also doing post, I believe, so his requirements and considerations are different from mine. Fair enough.

-R

KRiz,

had I said it was my own ICON you'd say I was "loving the one he's just bought". Same difference. Actually, I'm sort of 30% co-owner, and it is post, and Europe.
We're using it primarily for film mixes, in a 700m3 room with a screen about 18ft wide. The ICON does look and feel the right size in there. I wouldn't put it in a small room. We have a small studio for TV mixes: ProControl/EditPack in there.
Comparing the two controllers, I believe ICON delivers more value per buck. (I'm saying this just because everybody here gets so upset about price&size). Not very surprising considering the six or so years development since ProControl came out.
It's strong points probably aren't the blatently visible. There is much better integration with the software. This is difficult to appreciate unless you work with it. I don't want to put down ProControl; I've done a lot of work on it and ended up liking it. But it never gave me much feeling of unity between interface and software.

-Florian
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  #37  
Old 07-08-2004, 05:17 PM
RKrizman RKrizman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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I figured you'd cop out when pressed for specifics!
Well that's a laugh. You're just some anonymous guy on the internet. You could be an audio know-nothing posting from your big brother's dorm room for all I know. Since when do I owe you any explanations?

I've already shared the big specific with you. For my purposes the board is needlessly large at the expense of better ergonomic opportunities. And since you know who I am and where I'm coming from that opinion can be gauged accordingly, and therefore it means something.

Even if you don't agree, it means something.

On the other hand, about all we know about you is that you haven't really had any experience with the Icon.

Ah, the internet.

Come on, surely somebody besides Florian and I have put their hands on this thing.

-R
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  #38  
Old 07-08-2004, 05:34 PM
The Eggman The Eggman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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I've already shared the big specific with you. For my purposes the board is needlessly large at the expense of better ergonomic opportunities. And since you know who I am and where I'm coming from that opinion can be gauged accordingly, and therefore it means something.

Come on, surely somebody besides Florian and I have put their hands on this thing.

-R
Kriz,

First off, I know next to nothing about you either, other than you said that you were a composer. Please don't lose sleep over my credentials. Everything that I've told you is true.

In terms of people putting their hands on this thing, I've gotten the full blown personal demo direct from Digi on the surface. So it's not quite like I haven't touched the thing. I've sat at it and spent enough time to get a general feel for it. But given that it's kind of a new way of working, I don't think I could ever know it very well without spending weeks/months on it. In that regard, I trust Digi a bit that they did their homework in the design concept. Florian pointed out the (good) visibility of the scribbles even with a hand on the pot...that type of thing might take some time to recognize.

The "big specific" of "it's too big and doesn't suit me ergonomically" isn't that descriptive. If you don't want to elaborate, no problem. Whatever suits you, I hope Digi delivers it.
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  #39  
Old 07-08-2004, 10:26 PM
RKrizman RKrizman is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?

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[
In terms of people putting their hands on this thing, I've gotten the full blown personal demo direct from Digi on the surface.

What you said earlier was :

"I have only seen the product at trade shows, and my general thinking is that for those engineers and/or studios seeking a professional surface for the purpose of mixing in Pro Tools, it seems like a reasonable product."

Now that you've had the full blown personal demo I'll reconsider your opinion.

-R
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  #40  
Old 07-09-2004, 01:02 AM
Wolfgang Eller Wolfgang Eller is offline
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Default Re: D-Control--Why so large?



[/QUOTE]
I've sat at it and spent enough time to get a general feel for it.

[/QUOTE]


Oooops they had a second ICON with them which doesnīt look like a banana afterwards?

Okay seriously: Apart the fact that it is not built like a tank (which you should expect with that price) a 48 channel desk is to expensive (for 130000€ (Yes thatīs the price in Europe) I get a SSL MT Remote desk and that is a tank) and when Iīm sitting in front of any "serious" desks I have all my group faders in front of me. With the ICON itīs the same as before: Itīs a keyboard and a ... hold on thatīs new: A $60000 trackball. I hate these thinks anyway so again no reason to buy an ICON.

Sorry Digi but for me, you completely missed the chance to "invent" a revolutionary new way of ergonomically mixing.
Itīs not a problem for all the post pro guys, they are used to work not in the center (your sweet spot is bigger anyway) but for a music recording "desk" itīs the same like (almost) all others: The center section is to wide as you can reach all knobs you need (even with bay or channel swaping).

To stay in center you have to use the keyboard and mouse again. So why spending $60000 if nothing changed?
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