So close... yet, so far.... Midi Update - DRUMS.

[TNM]

First I will get out of the way that I love the midi plugins and ease of use.

Now to the frustrated part.

I saw the midi FX steqp sequencer in preview videos and thought we might finally have a solution for easier drum programming. I was actually excited, as it looked dead set like a drum sequencer.

Sadly, it seems it is monophonic, and if it's not, I can't work out how to change it. It does seem very cool for basslines and the like though.

So because we still don't have a midi drum grid, and no drum step sequencer...

I have an idea.

Groovecell.

Groovecell is one of the easiest drum programming plugins I have ever used in my 30 years of making music.

Groovecell allows the pad names to be changed.

So

why not make a midi FX version of the groovecell sequencer?

And if that's too difficult, why not add a midi out to it, which is the easiest modification out of everything I am suggesting, which would allow us to choose it as a midi in on our drum instruments of choice, and use the sequencer.

It's *something*, whilst we wait for the native piano roll drum grid that may never come.

All I want is drag note in piano roll snap to scale, a polyphonic steqp sequencer midi FX or drum mode in piano roll, and that's it.

Pro tools will be 99.99% there for me.

Then we have the dream stuff.....

Being able to change sample rate on the fly in project, automation bezier curves, and a longer ADC time, say 32K samples even at 44K, so plugins with really long delays that break the limit with one instance can be used and properly compensated.

I know we all have different wishes, but that's really all I want. Truly. Am I greedy?

I think making life easier for programming drums is probably the most critical thing out of all that though, and I don't think I am the only one who wants that.

[resonatee]

you've seen this, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3bnbzpKUvI

seems pretty creative, and also very nice to mix if you have a control surface

Ever thought about hackintoshing your pc? i14700 with Z790 seems like an moderately easy experiment....

[marianna]

Originally Posted by TNM

First I will get out of the way that I love the midi plugins and ease of use.

Now to the frustrated part.

I saw the midi FX steqp sequencer in preview videos and thought we might finally have a solution for easier drum programming. I was actually excited, as it looked dead set like a drum sequencer.

Sadly, it seems it is monophonic, and if it's not, I can't work out how to change it. It does seem very cool for basslines and the like though.

So because we still don't have a midi drum grid, and no drum step sequencer...

I have an idea.

Groovecell.

Groovecell is one of the easiest drum programming plugins I have ever used in my 30 years of making music.

Groovecell allows the pad names to be changed.

So

why not make a midi FX version of the groovecell sequencer?

And if that's too difficult, why not add a midi out to it, which is the easiest modification out of everything I am suggesting, which would allow us to choose it as a midi in on our drum instruments of choice, and use the sequencer.

It's *something*, whilst we wait for the native piano roll drum grid that may never come.

All I want is drag note in piano roll snap to scale, a polyphonic steqp sequencer midi FX or drum mode in piano roll, and that's it.

Pro tools will be 99.99% there for me.

Then we have the dream stuff.....

Being able to change sample rate on the fly in project, automation bezier curves, and a longer ADC time, say 32K samples even at 44K, so plugins with really long delays that break the limit with one instance can be used and properly compensated.

I know we all have different wishes, but that's really all I want. Truly. Am I greedy?

I think making life easier for programming drums is probably the most critical thing out of all that though, and I don't think I am the only one who wants that.

Hi Theo...

I sent this along to the design and development team..... not sure what it would entail or even if it is doable given the current roadmap into 2025 but at least they know it is being asked.

Marianna

[TNM]

Originally Posted by resonatee

you've seen this, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3bnbzpKUvI

seems pretty creative, and also very nice to mix if you have a control surface

Ever thought about hackintoshing your pc? i14700 with Z790 seems like an moderately easy experiment....

Yes of course, that is what I have used for 5 years.

But if you forget and resize one track, you lose it for example cause the note is not on the correct lane anymore and it's not an undoable feature. So if you have saved after a mistake, the grid is ruined. I try not to so I can easily reload if I make a mistake.

It's a lot of work but the best workaround we have for now.

if you decide after converting it to a clip to edit it, you can't really have a bulk clip to copy and paste, there will be perma gaps, like chunks taken out of the main clip.

It's a band aid but better than nothing, and the lovely feature of pro tools split midi notes to individual tracks is what makes it possible, something not all DAWs can do.

[TNM]

Originally Posted by marianna

Hi Theo...

I sent this along to the design and development team..... not sure what it would entail or even if it is doable given the current roadmap into 2025 but at least they know it is being asked.

Marianna

Hi, much appreciated.

Even if it can't be done with groovecell, the fact is that midi plugins are available in PT now and I presume third parties are allowed to make them, since some of the included ones are light versions of third party plugins.

Even the "riffer" step sequencer that is already there could be altered to be a perfect drum sequencer by allowing polyphonic note placement and simply to be able to name each sound on the left side.

They could upgrade what is already there into a great drum sequencer literally overnight with some changes to the base product.

It could be called Riffer XT.

A choke feature wouldn't hurt either, although I must admit, it's not that needed for someone like me who does electronic drums but it could be very useful to the legions of users out there that program acoustic drums.

Midi drum programming is one area where PT is so behind some other DAWs, it's almost hard to believe Avid have let it lapse so severely.

[TNM]

Originally Posted by resonatee

you've seen this, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3bnbzpKUvI

seems pretty creative, and also very nice to mix if you have a control surface

Ever thought about hackintoshing your pc? i14700 with Z790 seems like an moderately easy experiment....

BTW, I am going back to Mac for audio.

After having this mac studio for a week, the tables have been turned and I have literally been left speechless. Pro tools performs so well on Mac now at 32 buffer, no spikes, nada, on Apple silicon, and there's zero DPI scaling issues for any plugin. It's been a nightmare on PC trying to work with plugins on a highly scaled 4K panel. Nightmare.
Even PT itself, the cursor is tiny even though I have used an override that puts the main app at the correct screen ratio.

Anyway, keeping my PC for gaming (14900K by the way, I just forgot to edit sig, and 4090, I upgraded shortly before delivery) and everything else, and going strictly back to Mac JUST for audio, which means I also don't have to worry about converting my hundreds of Logic songs.

For those that read me say I will never go back to Mac, never in my wildest dreams did I think I would, but the ARM chips have shocked me in a way I have actually never been shocked before. The low latency performance is absolutely incredible. In PT Windows at 32 buffer, you see massive usage on all 32 cores even if one VI is record armed - on Mac Intel it was exactly like that also, but now, the usage is so measured and even, I have to say, for GUI issues and performance issues, nothing can compare to Mac right now for PT.

I am returning the base 12 core mac studio and buying the M2 ultra with 128GB ram and 4TB ssd. I don't even have to upgrade my Apollos, the thunderbolt 2 versions "just work". Even on this modern ARM mac. So I just saved a grand there.

[skylar_battles]

Just curious, why not just use the MIDI editor which is essentially a more detailed sequencer than anything else since you have all of the keyboard modifiers, tools, keyboard shortcuts, and ability to view multiple tracks of MIDI at once and choose whether or not you are can edit them or just view them as a reference? Much more detailed I find than anything in a plugin.

Also 2 settings I highly recommend changing both for edit window MIDI and MIDI editor MIDI:

A commonly overlooked thing with MIDI editing in PT is that you need to set the pencil tool to literally any of the other options besides the default “free hand” (the others just have different velocity curves) so you can draw in consecutive notes following the value (explained next) you choose. Click and drag with pencil tool or control click and drag with smart tool.

Also set your value when drawing in notes to “follow grid” in both the edit window and MIDI editor. Now you can pencil in consecutive grid length notes following the current grid value. For some reason this is also not the default (I think it’s 1/16 similar to quantize default) which makes no sense for most MIDI use cases. Most DAWs probably work like this in their default state when the equivalent function is used, so it’s weird to have to do these steps for what I consider desirable on the grid MIDI sequencing behavior.

Another one to change is the "MIDI quantize settings" which really refer to the settings used when you use the Command Option 0 shortcut. By default 1/16, much more useful when "follow grid" is used. Unlike the previous mention changed, this one appears to be global between the edit window and MIDI editor in Pro Tools and you will see that if you change the setting.

With those 3 changes I honestly find the MIDI editing and sequencing experience quite good in Pro Tools! With GrooveCell to load samples and using the MIDI editor to program, you can program with a much deeper degree of detail than within a plugin as far as nudging, using groove templates, and probably move faster overall as it’s integrated more fully into the software.

We just need MIDI playlist view!!! And also a simple sampler that that’s gives us an easy way to play a sample pitched across the keyboard. Waiting patiently….

[tope d]

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

Just curious, why not just use the MIDI editor which is essentially a more detailed sequencer than anything else since you have all of the keyboard modifiers, tools, keyboard shortcuts, and ability to view multiple tracks of MIDI at once and choose whether or not you are can edit them or just view them as a reference? Much more detailed I find than anything in a plugin.

Also 2 settings I highly recommend changing both for edit window MIDI and MIDI editor MIDI:

A commonly overlooked thing with MIDI editing in PT is that you need to set the pencil tool to literally any of the other options besides the default “free hand” (the others just have different velocity curves) so you can draw in consecutive notes following the value (explained next) you choose. Click and drag with pencil tool or control click and drag with smart tool.

Also set your value when drawing in notes to “follow grid” in both the edit window and MIDI editor. Now you can pencil in consecutive grid length notes following the current grid value. For some reason this is also not the default (I think it’s 1/16 similar to quantize default) which makes no sense for most MIDI use cases. Most DAWs probably work like this in their default state when the equivalent function is used, so it’s weird to have to do these steps for what I consider desirable on the grid MIDI sequencing behavior.

Another one to change is the "MIDI quantize settings" which really refer to the settings used when you use the Command Option 0 shortcut. By default 1/16, much more useful when "follow grid" is used. Unlike the previous mention changed, this one appears to be global between the edit window and MIDI editor in Pro Tools and you will see that if you change the setting.

With those 3 changes I honestly find the MIDI editing and sequencing experience quite good in Pro Tools! With GrooveCell to load samples and using the MIDI editor to program, you can program with a much deeper degree of detail than within a plugin as far as nudging, using groove templates, and probably move faster overall as it’s integrated more fully into the software.

We just need MIDI playlist view!!! And also a simple sampler that that’s gives us an easy way to play a sample pitched across the keyboard. Waiting patiently….

Thanks for this. I'll mention this to the team.

[marianna]

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

Just curious, why not just use the MIDI editor which is essentially a more detailed sequencer than anything else since you have all of the keyboard modifiers, tools, keyboard shortcuts, and ability to view multiple tracks of MIDI at once and choose whether or not you are can edit them or just view them as a reference? Much more detailed I find than anything in a plugin.

Also 2 settings I highly recommend changing both for edit window MIDI and MIDI editor MIDI:

A commonly overlooked thing with MIDI editing in PT is that you need to set the pencil tool to literally any of the other options besides the default “free hand” (the others just have different velocity curves) so you can draw in consecutive notes following the value (explained next) you choose. Click and drag with pencil tool or control click and drag with smart tool.

Also set your value when drawing in notes to “follow grid” in both the edit window and MIDI editor. Now you can pencil in consecutive grid length notes following the current grid value. For some reason this is also not the default (I think it’s 1/16 similar to quantize default) which makes no sense for most MIDI use cases. Most DAWs probably work like this in their default state when the equivalent function is used, so it’s weird to have to do these steps for what I consider desirable on the grid MIDI sequencing behavior.

Another one to change is the "MIDI quantize settings" which really refer to the settings used when you use the Command Option 0 shortcut. By default 1/16, much more useful when "follow grid" is used. Unlike the previous mention changed, this one appears to be global between the edit window and MIDI editor in Pro Tools and you will see that if you change the setting.

With those 3 changes I honestly find the MIDI editing and sequencing experience quite good in Pro Tools! With GrooveCell to load samples and using the MIDI editor to program, you can program with a much deeper degree of detail than within a plugin as far as nudging, using groove templates, and probably move faster overall as it’s integrated more fully into the software.

We just need MIDI playlist view!!! And also a simple sampler that that’s gives us an easy way to play a sample pitched across the keyboard. Waiting patiently….

Hi there....

I know that Tope mentioned he would get your comments on Midi to our development team.... but I also took the comments to them and the response I received is.....

A simple sampler and midi playlists are highly requested and planned! As for the default settings you are asking above, it should not be hard to change, and we can ask other users if they agree and then we can possibly do that but I can't commit to a when.

HTH and thanks for the feedback.

Marianna

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by marianna

the response I received is.....

A simple sampler and midi playlists are highly requested and planned! As for the default settings you are asking above, it should not be hard to change, and we can ask other users if they agree and then we can possibly do that but I can't commit to a when.

As for defaults, yeah, maybe it makes sense, but I would hope that any changes made to a session, or copies of it, or templates made from it, might retain those changed settings.

For instance, although I agree that "Follow... Grid" makes sense a default for Quantize/Input Quantize settings, I prefer to have mine at 16th notes, because I change the grid on Edit Window all of the time, but that doesn't mean I'm changing it for whatever I may be playing in. If it's saved as "16th notes" in my template (because I set it that way), then I'm fine with the default being "Follow... Grid". I think of it sort of like the way that I/O settings are (somewhat) anchored to the session, and thus portable.