Alternatives to Pro Tools - Pro and Cons

[Hot Banana Studio]

I only started using Pro Tools around 8 months ago for film sound editing and mixing. PT12 with a little Avid stereo interface, bargain. Software seems intuitive and solid.
I'm in the process of upgrading my studio to 5.1 and I have only just learned that I will have to spend around £3.5k on HD hardware to get those extra surround channels coming through my monitors. Fortunately I have not purchased any Pro-Tools specific plugins (apart from my keyboard).

When a software manufacturer starts dictating what unaffordable hardware I must have in my studio in order for their software to function I have to look at alternatives.
Fortunately for me I still have Logic Pro X (not yet used), AdobeAudition 6 and Cubase 6.5 to fall back on. None of those other DAWs require proprietary hardware to run in surround so far as I know. Pro Tools for me has become a dead end until I have the means and the motivation to scale that price barrier.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Hot Banana Studio

I only started using Pro Tools around 8 months ago for film sound editing and mixing. PT12 with a little Avid stereo interface, bargain. Software seems intuitive and solid.
I'm in the process of upgrading my studio to 5.1 and I have only just learned that I will have to spend around £3.5k on HD hardware to get those extra surround channels coming through my monitors. Fortunately I have not purchased any Pro-Tools specific plugins (apart from my keyboard).

When a software manufacturer starts dictating what unaffordable hardware I must have in my studio in order for their software to function I have to look at alternatives.
Fortunately for me I still have Logic Pro X (not yet used), AdobeAudition 6 and Cubase 6.5 to fall back on. None of those other DAWs require proprietary hardware to run in surround so far as I know. Pro Tools for me has become a dead end until I have the means and the motivation to scale that price barrier.

This is one of those unfortunate things with the artificial divide between PTHD and PT-non HD (aka PT vanilla). There is absolutely no reason to segregate features like this and as you've seen there is no other daw that does this to this extent. While there is some stratification of features in other daw s/w you can still do other than 2 channel audio in every other daw and there is no other that makes you do it with special h/w. Take a look at Digital Performer - only one version that does everything.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by Hot Banana Studio

I'm in the process of upgrading my studio to 5.1 and I have only just learned that I will have to spend around £3.5k on HD hardware to get those extra surround channels coming through my monitors.

We are in the process of building a 5.1 post room and after much too'ing and fro'ing and thinking about additional income streams from outside projects, will probably pass on upgrading our present PT system.

Outsiders may want to use PT (some do, some don't, in which case, they seem to mainly use CuBase, Reaper and Logic) but our prime focus has to be on what makes the most sense for us for our own in-house productions. Outside work, using outside engineers, just will not feature as a major revenue stream.

As I personally only now use Reaper for all post work, that is the system we almost certainly will go for.

I came to Reaper, as a result of needing something in a hurry that would work on my laptop, when the studio was booked. I just wanted to edit some drums and get the thing out of the door that week, when I knew that I would not be able to get into the studio.

Since then, we now have all sorts of features in Reaper, such as, as many surround sound channels as you want, any and every plugin your heart desires and all the usual stuff like elastic audio, autotune and a range of really good reverbs. With the latest version, there is now basic video editing, which means for me, that I can set up Nuendo-style cue bars for ADR work and do basic cuts, without having to export to a video editing package, if I just want to tweak something.

There are just so many features, that after a while, one wonders why all DAWs don't have them, like render queues and not having to convert all files to one format in order to place them in a project. A 4K AVI file with 48/16 audio can sit alongside an MP3 file.

And then there is the customisation - any command or combination of commands on any button. So if your fingers are now only able to do PT short-cuts, well, load 'em up and use 'em!

In the past, we used PT and other DAWs (Soundscape, Nuendo and others) for post and editing only. I can't see myself using any DAW for multitracking anytime soon. Radar is just too perfect for that task!

I haven't given up on the idea of having PT HD Native, if only for visiting engineers working on one of our projects. But it would have to make business sense - and by that, I do not mean the sticker price.

Films nowadays have to be made to a budget and time is money - loadsamoney! The cost of the DAW is small-beer, compared to the cost of an overrun! That means no faffing about with licenses, no crashes, no down-time of any sort and of course speed of operation.

So we shall see!

[Bob Olhsson]

It's trivial to set up a surround mix in Pro Tools Vanilla especially now that it has VCAs. Pro Tools didn't even have explicit surround features for its first five years of use on the leading Hollywood stages. I've worked with top filmmakers who to this day have never bothered with the extra expense of an HD system. It's better to invest the same money in a reliable 5.1 monitoring system.

I'd stick with Pro Tools in the event opportunity knocks and you suddenly need to mix on a proper dubbing stage for theatrical distribution. You also have an incredible resource in the expertise found in the Post-Production forum here. Assuming you have a support plan, you can also get expert assistance there.

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I'd stick with Pro Tools in the event opportunity knocks and you suddenly need to mix on a proper dubbing stage for theatrical distribution.

Except that in today's somewhat topsey-turvey world, theatrical distribution is just a PR exercise for most and (unless you happen to have the latest Star Wars in your back pocket) actually costs money, rather than earning money. This is even more true for the UK, where top films get just 30-40% of B.O. and the rest just get a smile and an invoice!

But you speak words of wisdom - we did do 5.1, 7.1, etc. for donkeys' ages with surround desks and surround panning in DAWs, by just routing.

[Noiz2]

Well I come at this from a somewhat different place than many of you since I'm doing post for film and video. I have and still am looking for a decent alternative.

The reason I'm looking is that Avid and Apple separately made upgrading my PTHD system insanely expensive. I'm on a Mac and don't want to go to Windows, I've been Mac way too long to go back to Windows - not trashing it I just don't want to replace everything and all my software. I have been on PT since V3.x and owned a HD system since V4.

So My main rig is stuck in time, not really a problem productivity wise, post is 99% slicing and dicing and With the HD the computer speed is mostly irrelevant, but at some point the old box is going to die ...

I actually like ProTools and I have a lot more than the 10,000 hours on it so I really don't want to learn something else. But I'm semi retired, not nec. by choice, and most of the projects I'm working on are low budget. So I'm not going to drop the $15,000+ it would cost to get back to where I am now, but with a current PT.

However I do need OMF and post features and there are not a lot of options.

Nuendo I looked at a LONG time ago so maybe that deserves a new look.

Reaper is OK and gets better all the time but it is really focused on the music community and they have said they don't plan to add OMF/ AAF abilities so...

One that I will be trying out is Black Magic Designs DaVinci Resolve. I know it's a color grading app, but after BMD got it they added NLE features and the current version (in Public Beta now) has added the Fairlight DAW to the app.

Off the bat it will hit many of my check boxes, and I already use it as a NLE. Very good post work flow features and good media management etc.

I know some editors who loved the Fairlight DAW so we will have to see.

If I make a jump to whatever I will miss PT. I will miss the speed I can do things at and I will miss some of the plugins that will probably have to go by the wayside. A big block could be working on a big project which might force me to at least get the non HD version of PT. Sound post in the US is about 99% PT, and if you are working with a team you need to be able to pass things around so that will be a big deal for the Fairlight. Can it work with someone on PT? Can't say. It might though. BMD has made Resolve very smooth in working with other applications, it can open FCP 6 projects better than FCPX can.

The Harrison app I just looked at briefly. It doesn't hit many of my check boxes so not an option for me. There are a couple of others floating around but they really don't have the post production tools and workflow to make them viable for me.

[The Byre]

The new version of DaVinci-Resolve from Black Magic Design is to feature a full set of Fairlight tools and costs just $299 and should be out very soon.

Failing that, use anything and combine it with AA-Translator to be compatible with any other format.

[musicman691]

What is Fairlight? The only thing I know of with that word is the late Fairlight CMI which was one of the first computer based synths; roughly the same time as the original Synclavier board.

[The Byre]

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by musicman691

This is one of those unfortunate things with the artificial divide between PTHD and PT-non HD (aka PT vanilla). There is absolutely no reason to segregate features like this and as you've seen there is no other daw that does this to this extent. While there is some stratification of features in other daw s/w you can still do other than 2 channel audio in every other daw and there is no other that makes you do it with special h/w. Take a look at Digital Performer - only one version that does everything.

Other way around. Avid has always been a hardware manufacturer first. So it's stand to reason that they will curtail the software they program in aspect that will advantage the hardware sales. An other example is Logic. Without a mac (or a hackintosh), you can't get Logic.