Multitrack Drum Editing Using Elastic Audio - PT LE 8.0.1

[ryanwilsonfive]

a couple of quick questions for those who use elastic audio for multitrack drum editing... i'm usually a beat detective guy, but i've recently discovered the power of elastic audio. reading through the reference guide and watching dtv, it's recommended that you use the rhythmic algorithm on multitrack drums, however, i seem to get better sound quality using the polyphonic algorithm. i've noticed that when working in rhythmic, if a cymbal crash hangs over the kick and snare for a while, it seems to sound a little weird and almost compressed like a low bit rate mp3. it seems that i can work around this by using the polyphonic algorithm. so i guess my questions are... which algorithm do you use? what is the difference between using polyphonic and rhythmic on acoustic drums - the pros, the cons, etc.? also, has the polyphonic algorithm been enhanced in pt 8?

i will say that beat detective is awesome and preserves the recorded sounds without any tce, however working with elastic audio has made drum editing three times as fast. especially since i use beat detective le (all the p's & ;'s), plus all of those crossfades really start to take a toll on my computer near the end of a song before i consolidate.

thanks in advance.

-ryan

[AlexLakis]

I use rhythmic, but I always switch to X-Form and then commit on every single thing I use EA on (and yes, this takes a whiiiile on multitrack drums even with todays processing power.) The artifacts are too abundant to me otherwise, both on rhythmic and poly (which, in my experiences, can be better or worse on drums depending.)

Also to note since you mentioned crossfades: Elastic Audio does NOT like crossfades. Try to refrain from using them until after you commit the Elastic Audio. This messes with my workflow, but it's an issue that Digidesign knows about (and hopefully can/will do something about in the future.)

[elicious]

yes, try different algo's and use the one that does the best on each project.

and, like alex says, sometimes x-form or committing can increase performance, but not always.
sometimes it's better in real time mode, others with rendering.
you can also decrease artifacts by opening and adjusting the plug itself.

finally, you can also improve results by changing the amount of analysis markers either globally with "elastic properties"
or manually.

b.o.l.
e

[ryanwilsonfive]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Also to note since you mentioned crossfades: Elastic Audio does NOT like crossfades. Try to refrain from using them until after you commit the Elastic Audio. This messes with my workflow, but it's an issue that Digidesign knows about (and hopefully can/will do something about in the future.)

yeah. i meant when using beat detective, actually. i do consolidate the drum takes before moving things around with elastic audio.

also, could you use polyphonic on overheads and hats, and use rhythmic on things with hard transient hits like kick, snare, toms, etc.? would this cause any problems?

-ryan

[JonnyGinese]

I was wondering about this too.. soo... how do you make it so that you can edit all of the drum tracks with the same Transient/Warps? Like the pros do Manual edits...

Basically i want to be able to move the warps on my kick track.. and the same thing will move on the snare and toms and so on.. so that I'm editing the drums as if it was 1 instrument instead of all different instruments.

[danander11]

Originally Posted by JonnyGinese

I was wondering about this too.. soo... how do you make it so that you can edit all of the drum tracks with the same Transient/Warps? Like the pros do Manual edits...

Basically i want to be able to move the warps on my kick track.. and the same thing will move on the snare and toms and so on.. so that I'm editing the drums as if it was 1 instrument instead of all different instruments.

Group them.

[ryanwilsonfive]

so you are suggesting switching to x-form before committing?

does it matter which algorithm you edit everything in before switching?

and also, if you didn't want to x-form (i hear it can take hours), would it cause any problems within the tracks to use 'polyphonic' on overheads and hats, and use 'rhythmic' on things with hard transient hits like kick, snare, toms, etc.?

-ryan

[bwoods1]

Here's what works for me to get really tight drums, or to correct lousy drums beginning to end. I'll go ahead and lay out all the steps.

1. Do all of your manual editing, crossfades, etc. Then consolidate all drum regions.
2. Group all the drums and cymbal tracks
3. set all drum tracks to EA rhythmic
4. view analysis on cymbal mics (overheads, hats, ride), select and delete all markers. This helps cut down on unnecessary warp marker generation
5. Select warp view on all drum tracks so you can see what you're doing
6. push option+0 for the event menu. set quantize parameters
7. Select a few measures at a time. (watch for fills and extras)
8. Set up 1 measure preroll and after you apply quantize to a section, listen to it. Adjust or delete warp markers as needed.
9. When you've got all the timing right, ungroup the drums. Go to your cymbal tracks mentioned in step 3. Change those EA plugins from rhythmic to X-Form. Go make a sandwich or browse ebay. It takes my mac about 30-45 minutes to render. However X-Form will pretty well eliminate all the nasty artifacts that all the other EA plugins create. The difference is huge.
10. When its done rendering, regroup the drums and select all drum/cymbal regions at once. Consolidate again. Rhythmic works fine for all the drum tracks, and consolidating renders better than the commit function.
11. when its done consolidating, turn the EA plug-ins off. It won't ask you to commit or revert.
12. Save!
13. enjoy rock solid timing with silky smooth transients in the cymbals.

The key is X-Form on cymbals only, since it might take a day to render 12 or more tracks of drums. Of course this is less of a problem if you have a faster computer.

Hope this helps someone like me avoid months of frustration. It reads like a lot of work, but the steps don't take long. And forgive my redundancy.

[XanderMoser]

Originally Posted by bwoods1

Here's what works for me to get really tight drums, or to correct lousy drums beginning to end. I'll go ahead and lay out all the steps.

Thanks for taking the time to lay that out for us less experienced users. I'll try this out on one of my projects when I get some free time..

[cwsand]

Originally Posted by ryanwilsonfive

so you are suggesting switching to x-form before committing?

Yes - it takes a little longer but well worth it!

Originally Posted by ryanwilsonfive

does it matter which algorithm you edit everything in before switching?

Good question - I don't think so but I'd like to know for sure myself.

Originally Posted by ryanwilsonfive

and also, if you didn't want to x-form (i hear it can take hours), would it cause any problems within the tracks to use 'polyphonic' on overheads and hats, and use 'rhythmic' on things with hard transient hits like kick, snare, toms, etc.?

-ryan

You'll just have to use your ears and see how it sounds. Personally I can't stand all the artifacts present when you don't use X-Form but sometimes you can get by without using it. Also, while it does take longer I don't think it would take as long as you're saying for an average length song. It depends on how long the song is and how many tracks you're using it on.