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  #1  
Old 06-30-2004, 02:24 PM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

I have a ProTools HD 2 system on a Mac G4 867, running OS 9.2.
I am ready to bounce my stereo mix to disk, in preparation for burning a CD.

The session is at 96k, 24-bit. I plan to bounce in two steps, to avoid truncation from 24-bit to 16-bit:

Step 1 - Bounce to 44.1k, 24-bit, WAV file.
Step 2 - Import the file from step 1 into a new session. Bounce to 44.1k, 16-bit, AIFF file.

Then, I would burn the CD from the AIFF file.

In step 2 I know I need to select interleaved stereo as the format. However, what format do I select in step 1, so that I can end up with the stereo file in the new session? I assume it should be multiple mono, since the other two options (Mono-summed, and Interleaved) don't make sense. But I am just checking, to be sure Multiple Mono will in fact result in the stereo file I want.

Why the Multiple Mono option, but no Stereo option? Equivalent formats?

Thanks!
Mike
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2004, 03:05 PM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

Anybody???
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2004, 05:36 PM
dBgogogo dBgogogo is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

Selecting the Multiple Mono option will create two files, a L and a R. When you import both of those into the new session, they will link.
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2004, 07:26 AM
Doug Ring Doug Ring is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

Pro tools works with multiple mono (split stereo) files, so assuming you're bouncing down to a stereo file from several tracks and want to keep you first bounce "inside" Pro Tools, bounce it as multiple mono. Then it'll appear as "Bounce.L" and "Bounce.R" and you can put it on a stereo track and play it back or export it from PT.

If you bounce to stereo interleaved instead, Pro Tools will have to undo the interleaving and create split stereo files before you can put the bounce back into a project to do the second bounce: that's an unnecessary processing step and so I would avoid it.

By the way, the second step is better as an Export rather than a bounce for the same reason as above. Just export your first bounce file as AIFF, Interleaved Stereo, 16 bit, 44.1kHz and it'll be ready for CD burning.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2004, 12:09 PM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

Doug,
I am doing processing in both steps:
Step 1 - Sample rate converting (96k to 44.1 k)
Step 2 - Dithering to 16-bits, WAV format to AIFF, multiple mono to interleaved stereo

Can I "export" when I am processing like this? I always thought exporting meant sending the file "as-is" to another location/session. I didn't realize I could process when "exporting" (versus bouncing). I guess I don't really understand the difference between exporting and bouncing.

Any further help would be appreciated!!
Mike
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2004, 02:16 PM
frenchman frenchman is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

If a file is meant only to be re-imported into pro tools, then dual mono is the right thing.

BTW, be careful with the resampling process if the mix has been maximized, as this process can (and often will)generate some peaks over the reference level
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  #7  
Old 07-05-2004, 05:27 AM
Doug Ring Doug Ring is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

Mike, bouncing is, as you know, real-time and is the means by which you combine several tracks into a stereo file. It's a bit like mixing your 2" 24 track tape down to a stereo tape machine. If you don't change any of the options that can be set before you bounce, you'll end up with a split-stereo file (Bounce.L and Bounce.R) in the same format as your session: 96k, 24-bit in your case.

But you can change lots of options before you bounce and have conversion to other formats going on while you bounce. So you could do a single bounce in real time that converts all your parameters and end up with a 16-bit 44k stereo interleaved file ready for CD burning which you can have Pro Tools put in any folder that you specify. Or you can do as you've decided and change only the sample rate first time round. If you do that, you don't want a Stereo interleaved bounced file because then you won't be able to put it straight into a Pro tools session - it'll have to put it back into split stereo format first. And in fact, you won't be able to import it back and play it in your master session anyway, because you can't mix sample rates in sessions.

So you would create a new session with the correct sample and bit rates and import your bounce into that. Now the minute you have a single file, mono or stereo, that is a finished product, you can export it. Exporting is faster than real time and allows you to alter all the parameters of the file. You can even make it MP3 if you have the optional software. Your computer just goes off and makes a copy of the file, number-crunching as it goes. So the second stage of your process could be an Export rather than a Bounce. I think, however, that dither is not applied during an Export - it's only a real-time process. You'll have to decide where to apply the dither and read up on the truncating process if that's what you want to avoid. You can still do a second bounce if you want to,though, and if you choose to bounce as stereo interleaved, you'll have a CD-ready file.

Hope this helps.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2004, 08:00 AM
el biciclista el biciclista is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

Great explanation, Doug. Thanks.

I am sending the individual tracks out D/A, processing with hardware, analog summing, then going A/D back into ProTools and recording the stereo mix. So, I have the mix as a stereo track in ProTools. Based on your description, I think my process should be:

Step 1 - Export the stereo mix as a 44.1k, 24-bit, multiple mono, WAV file
Step 2 - Import this file into a 44.1k, 24-bit session WAV session
Step 3 - Bounce to disk (with dither) a 44.1k, 16-bit, interleaved stereo, AIFF file
Step 4 - Burn the CD

I would prefer to avoid bouncing altogether, but I guess that I can't do that because I have to bounce to get an interleaved stereo file for the CD. Oh well.

Thanks again!
Mike
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2004, 09:07 AM
Doug Ring Doug Ring is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

Mike, what you're proposing sounds perfectly logical, so you could give that a go. You don't *have* to bounce to get a stereo-interleaved file however; you can still get that by exporting. In your case, though, you have to bounce to use your external hardware. I don't think I picked up on that originally.

I wonder whether you might not be better bouncing first, thereby taking advantage of sending your 96k material through your external processing for maximum resolution from it. The trouble then is that you're still at 96k/24-bit, so you would have to bounce again if you want to dither to 16-bit. It's hard to know how much degradation each step introduces, so the gut reaction is to have as few steps as possible. The only way to find out is to try it different ways and see which gives the best-sounding final result. It might be that the improvement having the highest quality material through the hardware outweighs any degradation from the rest of the process...

My head is starting to hurt ... anyone else?
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  #10  
Old 07-05-2004, 02:29 PM
Infa Infa is offline
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Default Re: Select multiple mono format to bounce stereo mix?

I would like to know the benifits of making the process 2-3 steps instead of just 1,??? I heard you mention something about "truncating".. But is it a higher quality REALLY if you first bounce changing the Sample rate, reimport, then bounce changing the Bit ratio ????? I always just Bouced to Disc from a 96/24 session (or what ever) to a 44.1/ 16 bit stereo interleaved file(SD2, WAV, whatever), then burnt my CD, and called it a day..... I would have to echo Doug on saying, too many steps may cause more degregation than what your trying to miss by doing this double process.. Even by "going out" to get your mixed touched by some "outboard" gear,, I do that, and still just record it back into the session at THE SAME sample rate, and Bit rate, then do the "just 1 step" bounce to disc..... But please enlighten me if there is something I don't know about the "double" process thing.... I'm curious..... Plus if so,, is it theory, or proven ???..........
Thanks.........
Oh, but yeah,, if going to import back into ProTools make it a MULTI MONO mix,, that is how ProTools reads Stereo natively...
If you don't notice, if you ever try to keep the "convert after/or before bounce" option to show up, as long as you stay in the same sample rate and bit ratio, when you pick multi mono, it doesn't ask to convert, but once you change it, it'll come up and ask how you want it converted.......
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