Best foot controller for use with Eleven Rack?

[Fretburns]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

Update for Ground Control Pro users (sorry for quoting myself)

I have re-discovered how to set this up. You have to have the GCX 1 expander turned on in setup mode. Exit and save.

Then using the pedal, select the patch you want to match. Initiate the buttons to match the effects currently turned on, on the 11R and enter EDIT mode. Scroll through until your screen reads "GCX" and again initiate the effcts to match. Exit and save.

This should allow you to make patch changes and have the GCP follow along to match your rigs and what effects are on/off.

Note: I own a GCX and use it to power my GCP so I cannot test to see if these instructions work without actually having a GCX. My thought is that it would work but if anyone can confirm that would be great.

Good luck!

Can anybody without a GCX confirm that it this works without one?

[Fretburns]

Ok I finally figured it out, and the above does work without having the GCX, btw.

I just thought I would confirm it in case anybody else out there is as stupid as I am, lol.

Now that I've got it all figured out the GCP amazing! I can finally pretend I'm Mike Einziger without having to take tap dance lessons.

[koolaidman]

Hey, what is the final verdict on the Yamaha MFC10?

Im a bit confused as to weather or not it can send all of the possible cc's to the Eleven Rack?

Is it missing some cc's like I hear the Roland FC-300 is?

[madgt621]

Originally Posted by koolaidman

Is it missing some cc's like I hear the Roland FC-300 is?

Just a little bit of info on the Roland FC-300:

The FC-300 won't send MIDI CC#96~127. Really, that sucks, for the amount paid for the FC-300 shouldn't you be able to use 0~127?


here is a list of what you miss out on:

FX Loop On/Off

Amp On/Off

(those two are the big ones)

FX Loop Return
FX1 Setting 5~9
FX2 Setting 1~7, 12~13
Knob 1~6
Amp setting 7

But in actuality, it's not that bad. The purpose of the MIDI foot controller is to be used in a playing situation.

Usually when you're playing live, most people don't need an option to toggle the FX loop on and off within the preset (without doing an actual program change).

I also don't know anyone that would need to toggle on and off the Amp sims without doing a program change. Actually, doing that might be a bit problematic as you would have certain volume issues.

The last five listed are all "settings". For instance, say "Amp Setting 7" is your Mid knob on the amp sim. (i believe it changes from amp to amp) Let's also that you have it virtually set to 12 o'clock. If at one point you wanna boost your mids via the amp, you can do it via CC message.

Set the pedal/button to CC#112, and set it to "latch". Set the value for the pedal to be 64~127. The pedal/button in it's normal off position will be 50% or 12 o'clock. Engage it and it will jump up to max because it's set to 127. Disengage and it will return to the first value set on it. (in this case 64, or 50%) You can even set the first value higher (i.e. 127~0) to enact a decrease.

With that said, you'd probably rather do this with the Graphic EQ or Multi-FX with better results, which the FC-300 is capable of doing.

So yeah, it's all a trade-off. The Roland FC-300 is a little pricey, and doesn't come with all the possible CC messages. But it's a durable unit, and quite flexible with different modes that you can use with the 11R. It more than gets the job done.

[koolaidman]

Hey, thanks for all the info on the Roland. It was actually my first choice until I learned about its cc limitations.

As you said it isn’t a big deal, but I’m gonna steer clear of it anyhow just to keep my options open. Also there is the possibility that the Eleven Rack gets updated, then suddenly those cc's could become more important.

I wish Roland would just update it and allow it to send all possible cc's, then it would definitely be my #1 choice.

[madgt621]

Originally Posted by koolaidman

Hey, thanks for all the info on the Roland. It was actually my first choice until I learned about its cc limitations.

As you said it isn’t a big deal, but I’m gonna steer clear of it anyhow just to keep my options open. Also there is the possibility that the Eleven Rack gets updated, then suddenly those cc's could become more important.

I wish Roland would just update it and allow it to send all possible cc's, then it would definitely be my #1 choice.

I feel you there man. The missing CC's are probably my biggest concern with the FC-300 right now. I'm lucky that i just happened to have the FC-300 before i got the 11R. I mean, plenty of controllers (including the GCP, which seems to be the most popular choice as of now) have their limitations. I have not yet found the perfect controller for the 11R. Maybe Avid needs to come out with a dedicated lost controller option?

Also, there are a few CC's that are in the 0~95 range that the 11R doesn't use. Hopefully they'd use those before the the 96+ range.

All in all, the FC-300 definitely is still a legit controller. But with a couple of asked for features (auto-engage wah) i would be completely willing to move to the GCP, or something like it.

Regarding the Yamaha MFC10:

I skimmed through the manual and there's nothing immediately apparent that states that it can't send all CC's. but i did see this on the Musicians Friend site:

100 control changes, 128 program changes

EDIT: (The FC-300 is only capable of sending CC#0~95, but is capable to use full range after it (sweep range for an expression pedal or on/off setting for switches). Also the FC-300 is capable of 1~128 program change.

i recommend downloading the manual and look through yourself, and hopefully you can find one in a store that you could mess with. You don't have to actually hook your 11R up to it, you can just breeze through the edit mode and see if you can assign those high CC's in the controller.

Though, i'm living here in Japan, where Yamaha is hot s--t, and i still haven't found an MFC10 to mess around with. Though i will keep my eye out for it.

[koolaidman]

Originally Posted by madgt621

I mean, plenty of controllers (including the GCP, which seems to be the most popular choice as of now) have their limitations.

What kind of limitations does the GCP have besides the obvious lack of expression pedals?

[madgt621]

Originally Posted by koolaidman

What kind of limitations does the GCP have besides the obvious lack of expression pedals?

Well it's really just that, but what also goes with that lack of expression pedals, is the deal breaker for many, including myself.

Here is the main reason use the FC-300 rather than the GCP.

It's all about the wahs. In order for the 11R's wah to 100% function like a real wah, it requires two things: an expression pedal, and a switch at the max toe down position. The GCP has neither of these due to lack of exp pedal, while the FC-300 has two.

In order to successfully set up the wah to your MIDI controller, you need to assign two MIDI CC messages. MIDI CC#4 would need to be assigned to your expression pedal, with a range of 0~127. While MIDI CC#43 would need to be set to a preferably latchable switch with the value of 64~127, so that when the switch is on, the wah is on.

With the FC-300, this switch is location directly under the toe of the exp pedal. And like a Crybaby/Vox style wah, if you put a certain amount of pressure on it, it switches on and off.

Since the GCP doesn't have this, you need to assign the on/off CC to a switch away from the external expression pedal. This is quite cumbersome as it takes two movements to get the wah going. (stepping on the switch and then moving your foot the distance to the exp pedal) Some people can deal with it, i cannot. One of the main reasons i switched to the 11R is to escape tapdancing all over a pedalboard.

Other than at, i haven't heard any limitations regarding actual PC or CC limitations on the GCP. Also, if someone makes an exp pedal with a built in switch that worked with the GCP (or said type of controller), i'd ditch my FC-300 because the GCP's mapping is very flexible. (See Sean Halley's videos with the GCP)

Also, i cannot be 100% on the MFC10 will do what the Roland FC-300 does, because i have not seen it in person, i cannot say if it has the switch at the toe down position. And when i looked through the manual there was nothing that i saw that told me it had one. I could be wrong though.

[koolaidman]

Originally Posted by madgt621

This is quite cumbersome .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sOqZRCljlA

haha..........

Anyhow, I was unaware that the Roland had switches under the expression pedals.....definitely an advantage.

Of course as you or someone else mentioned, auto engage for the wah would be the best solution for this problem.

P.S. Ive never actually used a midi footswitch or eleven rack, just ordered the 11R earlier today, holding off on the footswitch until I know which one to get....do own the 11 plugin however

[madgt621]

Originally Posted by koolaidman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sOqZRCljlA

haha..........

Anyhow, I was unaware that the Roland had switches under the expression pedals.....definitely an advantage.

Of course as you or someone else mentioned, auto engage for the wah would be the best solution for this problem.

P.S. Ive never actually used a midi footswitch or eleven rack, just ordered the 11R earlier today, holding off on the footswitch until I know which one to get....do own the 11 plugin however

Ha! sounds so old to me now.

Well then you already know what to expect. The Eleven Rack is like carrying around a personal box of Eleven awesomeness and more.

But really to get the most out the 11R, you need an awesome controller. But in the meantime, while you decide, you can buy a dual foot switch (i.e. Boss FS-6), or two foot switches with a Y cable, and connect it to your exp pedal/ext ftsw jack. You can set this up to linearly scroll through rigs, and most likely you can add the footswitch to most MIDI controllers on the market. The trade off is you won't be able to use the wah's with a standard exp pedal (they use the same jack). But, most guitarists have wahs already, and they work great placed in front of the 11R. And that should keep you going till you buy an awesome foot control solution.