Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Other Products > The Drum Room

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-08-2011, 06:17 PM
Space Monkey Space Monkey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 16
Default Why do you silly folks mic drums?

I just got an Alesis DM10 Electronic Drum Set two 1/4 in. cables going into my joe meek dual ch. strip w/ EQ, COMP. During class we mic'd drums and the cost would be enourmous for all those mics. Furthermore you won't always get it mic'd just right (makes me wonder how Jerry Garcia and company were able to pull it off when they were so chemically enhanced). I just use an electronic drum set. Now let me say I am a beginner drummer I still have trouble with the bass drum/pedal (i think my pedal sucks) but for a beginner the alesis is awesome. I just am curious what is the allure of acoustic drum sets instead of electronic? Also for you expert drummers what can I do to get better at drumming esp. using my feet? At any rate before I got this I had (and don't laugh) a roland spd-20 drum machine. Essentially I have no one to play with in a band so I just tought myself almost every instrument over the past 20 yrs.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-09-2011, 12:00 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 34,903
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

Hey, if it works for you, then its the right thing to do. Personally, I also don't care if I see another acoustic kit in my studio. Since my room is on the small side, I use a Roland TD-10 kit, but instead of using L&R out of the brain, I just take the midi to a stereo instrument track and insert Superior Drummer 2. This gives me about 50 different kits between the expansion packs and the choices within each kit(plus you can grab sounds from different kits to make your own). As great as this works(and it does), it gets a little better when I use a real hihat and 1 mic. Then I sometimes use all real cymbals with 3-4 mics(when real drummers play) and that puts it completely over the top. With a VI drumkit(instead of L&R from a module) you can split the kit out to separate tracks for everything and get as fancy as you would with a real kit(but without most of the hassle) Not to say I don't love a great sounding kit, but its amazing how often the kit is not that good, has tired heads and cracked cymbals, or is poorly tuned(drum tuning is a skill that many drummers just don't have).
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-10-2011, 05:15 AM
ejwells's Avatar
ejwells ejwells is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,530
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Monkey View Post
I just got an Alesis DM10 Electronic Drum Set two 1/4 in. cables going into my joe meek dual ch. strip w/ EQ, COMP. During class we mic'd drums and the cost would be enourmous for all those mics. Furthermore you won't always get it mic'd just right (makes me wonder how Jerry Garcia and company were able to pull it off when they were so chemically enhanced). I just use an electronic drum set. Now let me say I am a beginner drummer I still have trouble with the bass drum/pedal (i think my pedal sucks) but for a beginner the alesis is awesome. I just am curious what is the allure of acoustic drum sets instead of electronic? Also for you expert drummers what can I do to get better at drumming esp. using my feet? At any rate before I got this I had (and don't laugh) a roland spd-20 drum machine. Essentially I have no one to play with in a band so I just tought myself almost every instrument over the past 20 yrs.
Because real drums, when mic'd right, sound great?
Expensive mics and real drums are a big part of what sells studio time for me. I'm well aware that not everybody has this option, what with limited space, and limited microphone budget.
Electronic drum kits make sense for project studios, and certain types of music, but a good kit in a good room with good mics will generally be preferred by most bands looking to book time.
__________________
Pro Tools 10.3.3 | HD Native | HD I/O 8x8x8 | Mac Pro 8 Core Westmere | 24GB RAM | OSX Lion 10.7.4 | API 3124 | Chandler TG-2 | UA 4-710d | Empirical Labs Distressor EL8X | Kemper Rack |
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-10-2011, 05:54 AM
BradLyons BradLyons is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,985
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

There are times and places for electronic drums.... But when you want the best possible sound, acoustic drums always win hands down. Why? Because the best sound comes from drummers that are playing the way they were meant to play, and real drums allow that. Why mic them? Because you can't mic electronics I sell electronics, I am a consultant working directly with some of the biggest names in the business.... and like I said there is a time and a place for them but you can NOT get the same reaction, nuances, variation of timbres the way you can with the real thing. As an engineer, I absolutely insist on using acoustic drums because I have the ability to create the sound I want--not rely on how someone else sampled them.
__________________
Thank you, Brad Lyons
GC PRO- Pro Accounts Manager
(404)844-9758
blyons@gcpro.com
www.theaudioprofessional.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-10-2011, 08:21 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,644
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

God created the Earth, then begat Hephaestus, the Greek God of Fire and Metallurgy, who gave great secrets to the Zildjians...

And I was playing drums back before any of that happened!

While some of the very high-end edrums come close, there are simply some subtleties that I can create on an acoustic drum kit that I can't on an edrum kit.

Back in the day, when we put a new head on a drum, we would place a quarter pm the head and use it to draw a circle in the center of the drumhead. Our goal was to keep all of our "hits" inside the circle.

But that doesn't mean that it's the only place you can hit a drum...coloring outside the lines is okay. Which means you've got a tremendous number of places on even a single drum where y0ou can hit it. And every one of them give a different sound.

Multiply that by the number of drums in the kit (excepting the bass drum(s)) and you've got a huge array of sounds. And even though you can only hit one spot on a bass drum, with good foot technique it, too, can be very versatile.

Then go up on the tin...(old geezer nickname for cymbals). There again, a huge number of places to hit, all of them sounding different.

Throw in the wide range of sticks and brushes and mallets, how hard you hit with them, even which hand you hit with, and you have an instrument with an amazingly versatile range of sounds.

And there is currently simply no way for an edrum kit to give that range of versatility.

I use both kinds of kits, and in some cases it really doesn't make any difference which one I use. But when I want to do some really "expressive" work, my weapon of choice is always an acoustic kit...
__________________
X
Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-10-2011, 02:34 PM
ondruspat ondruspat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lansing, Michigan USA
Posts: 1,142
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Denton View Post
God created the Earth, then begat Hephaestus, the Greek God of Fire and Metallurgy, who gave great secrets to the Zildjians...

And I was playing drums back before any of that happened!
ROFLOL!! Good one!!


Space Monkey, while electronic sets have there place there is simply a whole range of sounds that can't be replicated. Using your aguement there is no reason for an acoustic guitar!!! (...or pianos, pipe organs, flutes, etc., etc.)

...hmm, even electronic versions of most those are sampled so SOMEONE has to really record them!!!
__________________
"Sometimes having limits keeps you sane"- Albee1952
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:33 PM
sunburst79 sunburst79 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA
Posts: 12,763
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

One of these days some ones going to invent a usable eVocalist. Bands everywhere will rejoice.
__________________
Scott

Formerly Hobo Wan Kenobi

Core 2 Specs Page

ASUS P6T6 Revolution | i7 930 | 12GB OCZ DDR3 1600 7-7-7-20 | PTLE 10 | CPTK | 003 | Presonus D8 | 11Rack | Alesis AI3 | Presonus HP60 | Mercury + Studio Classics | Sound Toys | MasseyPack | Axiom61 | MAudio Keystation Pro 88
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-10-2011, 05:51 PM
ericsvizeny ericsvizeny is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 242
Default

Lmao...

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-11-2011, 08:19 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 34,903
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

This got me thinking....(always dangerous)...now why would anyone mic a guitar amp when 11rack or a PodHD will do the job nicely? What it really boils down to is; no sound(be it guitar model, amp model, drum sample or whatever) will please everybody
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-12-2011, 02:00 PM
DonaldM's Avatar
DonaldM DonaldM is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,129
Default Re: Why do you silly folks mic drums?

I have to agree with Bill...you really can't beat a real drummer (though once in a while they need a good flogging!) I find that every song I write that starts out with a groove created off midi drum loops, no matter how meticulous I am in creating the drum tracks, I can never get what I want vis-a-vis a real drummer. Its all those subtle things Bill mentioned. And, not being a drummer, I don't think like one (I know its assuming a lot that drummers actually think...but there it is ), so I don't really know what all to do to get all those subtleties even with a superb drum VI, like BFD or Strike. (I should add that my baby bro is a pro drummer, so teasing drummers sorta comes naturally to me...so all you real drummers, please know, I'm only joking - and am thinking of my baby bro, and NOT you!!! - you can retaliate with all the acoustic guitar player jokes you wish!)
So, all things being equal (or eq'd), unless I'm writing electronica, dance or trance grooves, I would always opt for the real deal, no matter how good my VI drums might sound.

Of course in certain genre's that electronic, quantized sound is expected, and the VI does the trick.

But, for all you drummers out there...I'd be curious to know who you feel about drum replacement in a mix, you know using something like Drumagog to replace your kick with another one, or snare, or whatever?? I have done that a bit, but always feel like I might make the drummer feel badly, even though that's not my intent. Thoughts?
__________________
"Never believe anything you hear in a song." Tyrion Lannister, Game of Thrones
Owner: Dragon Rock Productions LLC
Dell XPS 435T/9000 Win-10 Pro 24gig RAM
IntelCore i7 CPU 920@2.67GHz
Pro Tools 2018.12
Focusrite Scarlett 8i6


Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seriously Folks! zombie69 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 10 11-10-2010 04:00 AM
how do YOU folks do it? blankpro ProControl, Control|24, Command|8 2 05-29-2005 10:34 PM
PC folks, meet the Mac folks. Mac folks, meet.. graveleye General Discussion 12 01-06-2005 02:52 PM
What is going on with this folks? Jack Ruston Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 0 08-18-2004 03:35 PM
Silly, silly voice allocation johnwhynot Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 03-18-2000 07:38 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:38 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com