Advice on mixing needed..

[Eeyore]

Just got Protools and had previously been doing 2" analog mixing to a 16 bit SV3700.

I have a HD Accel system with a G5. When mixing down I had previously gone through my Focusrite Red 3 for mix compression and of course used alot of outboard FX. I want to continue to do this. I currently have 16 outputs coming back to my console from the 192 i/o. Obviously doing the 24 bit session in PT and then mixing down to a 16 bit DAT doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Can anyone share some wisdom on what I need to do? Is it possible to take my main mix out of the console back into Protools as I mix, save that mix and then burn my final CD on the G5 superdrive or do I need to purchase an external 24 bit burner? If I do need an external burner, which one is recommended?
Thanks

[pascaljacquelin]

Yes you can. You can simply take the output of your console (stereo bus or output of a limiter), create a stereo track, mute it, set it up to record from those outputs and that's it. Does this help?

[Eeyore]

Yes it does. Thank you!

[Infa]

Yes,, I do it all the time.. Except one MORE thing beyond what was mentioned before. It is cool to have a "place" the song can go to sit for a minute, THEN go back to PT -- Why ?? -- Because then you can record it back into PT at a different bit and SR than your original session, and preferablly one that is set up for recording to CD(16/44.1) - then you do no conversion inside of PT.. Plus in your case (the good part of this if you can afford it)- Where you go to "let your song sit" should be Analog Tape,, because it will give it that super warm, nice punchy sound. So, since you have that 2",, it is perfect.

Do like what you do,, do your mix, with all the outboard gear ,etc.. Have it run outta PT through your mixer(obviously), and then out the stereo masters out of your mixing board to two tracks (a left and right) on your 2" analog machine, and record it there real nice.. Then when all done, quit PT, rewind your tape, make a new session in PT at 16bit, 44.1, open up a stereo track and record the song from your 2" to PT that way-- And waahlaah,,, a awesome sound, and it is already NATURALLY converted to 16/44.1 ,, or you can get tricky with it, and think about what you are going to do with it from there as well,, like you may want to record it back as a 24bit 44.1 file, so then you can master it yourself, then after you master, bounce to disc, and change the bit ratio then. BUT the most important thing is to change the Sample Rate as I described above, always go back to PT at 44.1 but the bit ratio is open to what ever your plans are..--- Then master it your self,, or take it to get mastered --


Hope This Helps--

[Eeyore]

Thanks! What I have actually been doing lately is recording my drums and bass on the analog machine and then dumping to PT to finish the session. I guess if I send it to analog again I will have a generation loss on the drums and bass. Once I get more inputs into PT I will just do the whole session on PT and try it your way as well.

I usually send it out to be mastered at another facility. For now when looping my mix back into the PT session (after my console) it is at 48K and 24 bit. Is it possible to burn it that way after bouncing it out of the original session? I would have to assume that it is the only way I can do it if the original session is at 48K 24bit. I tried bouncing it but the .wav won't show up on my iTunes to burn to disc. Does it have to be 44.1k 24 bit to burn and send out to mastering or can I leave it at 48K? Sorry about the newbie questions. Thanks again.

[Infa]

YES,, it does have to be at 44.1 for itunes to burn it... I wouldn't use itunes, or a CD anyway. I would get an external firewire drive (they are getting pretty cheap now a days), and record your final, final sessions that are to go to the mastering lab to there. Then just put the firewire drive under your arm, and easily take it to the mastering lab. If you mail your stuff to a lab,, then you can mail your drive too..An external Firewire drive is just the best way to export/import files to and from your studio... The drive is just better than CD to me,, but others will argue...

As far as the drums going to tape twice,,,,, man that wont hurt it,,,, it actually will make it sound even better !! I would do it your way as you have been, and still incorporate my way at the end as well... It will come out PHAT -- I know, because I do it..

Sometimes I will take my snare, and kick, and record them to tape, then record that into Pro Tools at 24/96k, finish production,and making the whole song at the 24/96k session, get everything all tuned in, choped up, and just fuc#kin' pristine. Then mix outta PT, through the SSL to my Ampex Stereo Analog 1" Tape recorder... Waahlaah -- Everything sounds GREAT !! Then actually FOR ME, I take them reels to the mastering lab, and master straight from the reel,,, that's the way to go !!!

But if you must, and sometimes I do for clients, I will record BACK into PT from the Ampex, as I described earlier. After doing that, I have experienced absolutely NO generation loss as you say you are afraid of... It actually just makes the drums sound better !!

Try it all 3 ways -- You'll see

Hope This Helps--

[Eeyore]

Thanks again. I'll give it a try.

[mersisblue]

look at the masterlink

I like it and it can do 96k 24 bit

[Natural Sound]

Or...
When going back to PT. Instead of going to an audio track, send it to an AUX track. You can then do a Bounce To Disk which will allow you to do the conversion to 44.1 automatically.
This will be better than sending it to the DAT machine, since the Dat uses error correction which sometimes makes a questionable guess, and the BTD does not.
A second generation back to analog tape naturally does not make it sound better, unless, by 'better' you mean different, and by 'different' we mean less fidelity. In which case, the smaller the track width the 'better' it sounds- in which case- beauty is in the eye....
But you all already knew that.

[Infa]

A second generation back to analog tape naturally does not make it sound better, unless, by 'better' you mean different, and by 'different' we mean less fidelity.

I never meant to do an ENTIRE stereo mix back and forth to analog tape twice. I said you will not notice a generation loss if INDIVIDUAL sounds(mainly only 2 : Kick and Snare) originated on tape, then went into Pro Tools for the entire rest of the mumbo jumbo, then mix your entire song down to analog tape... You will notice NO type of generation loss at all unless your equipment is short of excellent, and TO BOOT what I said is you'll notice the things that originated on the tape actually sound even BETTER (especially if it is a Kick and a Snare) than they would if they didn't. I know because I've tried like 20 differents ways, on several different types of equipment and such.. And by "better" I mean what everyone else would consider better as well, I personally ran blind tests to see amongst several groups of 5 people each. Majority of people, and I would define the "better" I say here as : More body, fuller but yet somehow awesomely hollow as well, more of a natural chesty punch, warm but somehow actually perfectly bright as well, some odd ability to be able to hear it a bunch of times with out fatiguing the ears as the others seem to do, the ability to take onto mastering alot better ( like it takes a better squashing somehow), and most of all tape makes it seem (((((wider))))) --... unexplainable magic pixie dust is how I describe it

But I do it ALL ways honestly. And all ways about equivilently the same amount.. Its just when I do stuff that one way, THAT (what I described above) is what I notice everytime.. And this should say alot - When I do stuff for MYSELF, when I can choose ANYWAY to do it because I own this studio,,,,,, I choose to go to analog tape, and my drums has always been there twice (just my kick and snare though ) -- So that should say somethin' --

And other clients that HEAR my stuff all agree, and say, "Man I wish I had the money to go to tape like you" -- The damn reels are $80 ea. plus they only hold 3 songs each. Plus I burn 1 extra one for that drum thing I do... Thats about $600.00 on just reels alone (for a album), not to mention time of the studio rates, so add all that up and these broke clients can't do it... But to me it is well worth it, and peanuts compared to the results you get -- But how do you convience some of these people that ??? You don't !!