PT/HD Native - Got to assume there's a new & improved card coming right?

[BradLyons]

Originally Posted by acmost

Yeah, that would be nice. I'm tempted to buy a Mix Core & trade up to the Native Card & try it in this machine. If it's decent, I'd consider selling some stuff and upping the Mac Pro. I only track a very few instruments at a time...like two. I like being able to use plugs if I choose while tracking and record a track to a full mix if I absolutely have to.

The main thing is though I mix and with HD I like being able to basically pull up anything I want...like auxes, plugs whatever & be able to pull it off. I don't know that Native can do that on my Mac but if it can with a 8-12 core...I'd consider moving over....as long as I don't see Mac raise the buffer error thing...ever, almost ever. :)

Those that know me know I can be a bit vocal What you don't see or hear about offline is how much I press manufacturers for what they are doing, why they are doing it, and why they aren't doing it a better way. When I first learned of HD Native, I wasn't sold on it as stated.....then it was finally announced and released to the public, I still wasn't sold on it. I read everything, talkd with my contacts at AVID, read more, listened to what they told me, yada yada..... it still was BUT IT'S NATIVE. Well a year ago I was at the AES Show in San Fran and noticed (at the AVID booth) there was a full rock band playing, while tracking, while syncing to picture, using softsynths on the same computer, etc. My AVID contact pulled me aside and told me what they were doing, which basically was tracking through Pro Tools HD with plugins, doing separate monitor mixes through it, and using softsynths. I was floored. SO I setup a system at a local studio here in Atlanta to test this and holy cow, it really was nothing like what I expected it to be----it was better!

Moving from TDM may not be right for you---but it may be just fine. I think that technology has progressed far enough ahead that for many of those that thought they had to have TDM may not be in that boat. And there are those that wanted TDM but could never afford it, now have a viable option. Either way, HD NATIVE is stable, it smokes, and it really is affordable considering what you are able to do with it.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by nst7

A couple of points:

The tradeup special for $1595 has been going since about March of this year, so it has nothing to do with the recent release of HDX.

Just for the record:

Financially it has always been a trade-down. You gave up an HD2, payed 1600$ and if you want to go HDX1 now you pay even more than the guy who waited and goes from HD2 PCI-X to HDX1.

Tragically,

the guy who now buys PT10HD (software only) for his HD2 PCIe rig pays up to 2100€ and still has less power with his ex-premium rig than his buddy working on PT10+CPTK and faces EOL soon.

But I guess that´s the strategy they don´t want people to buy PT10HD(software only) they want to get accell cards off the market.

The big mistake of AVID was to implement this huge contrast in the pricing structure between PT10+CPTK and PT10HD while giving CPTK more or less the same features as PT10HD. This in combination with the bad communication/PR that forced people to learn the fine print spread across blogs and the DUC and even retailer sites that were clearer communicating what was REALLY going on led to the [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep] storm going on now.

AVID should really go full stop with any short term announcements now and start over by putting up a clear and compact page on their site that lists all options and cross-grade paths ASAP.

I learned more about PT10 and upgrade options from retailers than the info on the AVID site. I want to quit wading through hundreds of pages on the DUC and the blog only to catch some additional official info about PT10.

I´ve been reading the DUC for a week on this topic now and I must say the more I read the more confusing it gets.

Just an example: There´s not even consistent info about the command-8 being supported or not on the official AVID site. Some pages say yes, others don´t list it. I had to download the manual of PT10 to find the answer.

If you want to end this, put up ONE page with all the info.

Here´s an example of a good info source:

http://www.protools.smm-online.de/Do.../Upgrades.html

It´s in german but you get the picture. Compact, simple and covers the info your customers REALLY want to know.

[acmost]

Hey Brad...appreciate the insight! Did you mean that the band tracking, doing all that was using HD Native? I was thinking that's what you menat but it said HD. Thanks.

[nst7]

Good points, Frank.

[ggegan]

What exactly would a new HD Native card offer that benefits both you and Avid? The processing is independent of the card, so it primarily serves as an interface between the computer and the converters. The most logical advancement to be offered would probably be more output channels, but I don't think that is going to happen due to marketing issues. And here is why:

First of all, HD Native already competes favorably against TDM and presumably HDX, as well. According to my tests, an HD Native system on a Westmere 8 core out gunned my HD6 system and would likely decisively outgun a single HDX card. If you do need more voices, then 2 HD Native Systems, another IO box and a sync HD would give you the same number of voices and probably offer significantly more processing power than 2 HDX cards at a similar cost (dependent on which computers you buy), but now you have 2 systems, which offers a lot of flexibility. Now that D Command consoles can access 2 systems, the advantage of HDX surfaces for those who need to have all the processing on one system, or need 3 HDX cards.

This is somewhat of a marketing blunder IMO, because that means that there are two products from the same company competing against each other, and there are some distinct advantages from the lower priced product. If Avid were to upgrade HD Native cards so that they offer more outputs, that would be the kiss of death for HDX. It may already be in the process killing off it's higher end hardware sibling.

[nst7]

Plus every time you get a new, faster computer, it's like getting a new card.

[ggegan]

Originally Posted by nst7

Plus every time you get a new, faster computer, it's like getting a new card.

That's correct, with HDX you are locked into the current processing power of the HDX card's chips, but not so with HD Native Systems.

[sounddroid]

acmost, if you're on PT9, you could actually try a Native demo right now, without needing any hardware. Just select the Mac built-in audio as your playback engine, and it will shut off your TDM cards and put you in Native mode (albeit, without the slight performance and latency boost you get with the Native Card). Open one of your big mix sessions and see how it fares.

[acmost]

Hey thanks...heh, that's one of the first things I did when I upgraded to 9. I was amazed that you could finally do something like that. Anyway...now that we're here I just did it again. It's probably about 75 tracks with a bunch of them being stereo auxes and maybe 100 plugs. I also opened an instance of RMX . I had to go up to about 512 to keep it going. I couldn't simulate recording because it won't show me an active input. I have done it though using Line 6's Guitar Port as an input. That as well I was amazed it worked. Anyway I much prefer using TDM even though it works but I'm thinkin'...the Native Card would help big time obviously. I still am curious if this session would run at a 64 buffer with Native HD on this machine.

Thanks for the reminder. When it's all said and done I wanted HD, I finally bucked up for it & never looked back much. I'm sure I'd like HDX alot...$6995 plus a new Mac Pro plus handing my rig over to Avid in the trade ain't happening real soon though I don't think. No doubt I'll up to 10HD here & maybe add another card. Who knows.

[sounddroid]

I don't think you'll be able to lower the buffer much, if at all, with a Native Card. It helps, but not that much.

A couple things to think about:

If you want to expand your HDTDM rig, there will likely be tons of Accel cards on the market soon.

Or, you could sell your HD rig outright, get a new 27" iMac or even the 17" MacBook Pro (both are extremely fast machines) and buy PT10 + CPTK + MOTU 828 or similar.

Most people I know are opting for the HDNative upgrade, especially since it's only about $500 more than just upgrading PT10HD software by itself. You could even try to find an old Mix+ card on eBay and upgrade THAT!