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  #1  
Old 03-10-2010, 10:57 PM
SimonInAustralia SimonInAustralia is offline
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Default Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

I would like to be able to record a video signal into Pro Tools HD, a view of the stage, to allow students to see the stage when playing back from Pro Tools HD into the Venue MixRack system using Virtual Soundcheck.

What is the cheapest and/or easiest way to do this?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 03-11-2010, 04:33 AM
Neil Pickles Neil Pickles is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

It's not as easy as you are maybe thinking if you wish to maintain correct synchronization between audio and picture and not have the two drift out of time with each other.

A "cheap and cheerful" dirty way of doing it without locking up the systems is clapperboard or hand clap so you have an audio able and visual marker you can line up the picture to the audio tracks. You could use a camera make a Quicktime movie of it and import that into Pro Tools and manually line up the the two. As quicktime and Pro Tools are not "locked" to vid ref over a long period of time the two may drift out of sync.

You can not simply "record" video into PT HD but you can ingest it from a DV CAM or Digi Beta or import it into the Pro Tools time line via AAF or OMFI or as a QT.

To do a proper job of this you would need a Sync HD for your Pro Tools system and a MOJO SDI for video playback/ingest, a seperate video preview monitor for picture + a video ref generator (black burst) you need to lock your ProTools to the house clock and the camera(s) also to this and make sure the LTC from what ever you have chosen to be the master is suitably distributed.

I would recommend you stick to Standard definition as even this will put a strain on your hard drives. HD is just off the scale.

Then there is the issue of clocking the Venue system will it lock to the word clock from PT which in turn is locked to the vid ref/black burst can it lock to vid ref itself? I don't think it does, so it would have to be lock Pro Tools to vid ref, then lock Venue to Tools.

I'm going to have a quick look at ours and see if it can do this. That might put a spanner in the works.

On the other hand cheap and cheerful option A might be OK for you!

I'll report back.
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  #3  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:56 AM
bcs723 bcs723 is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Pickles View Post
You can not simply "record" video into PT HD but you can ingest it from a DV CAM or Digi Beta or import it into the Pro Tools time line via AAF or OMFI or as a QT.
The way I understood from yesterday's webinar you CAN do a live ingest. Thats the way he was recording video of Rob Thomas set's into his PT rig for this exact purpose: to have a video reference with the session.

Sheldon, anything out there with details on setting this up??
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2010, 08:33 AM
Neil Pickles Neil Pickles is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

I haven't watched that one. What was the title ? Your question interests me because in the future we might be trying to lock to cameras for DVD live productions/TV work. We would want to use our Venue HD system to track to and would want the option of professional fully synched audio and video.

You'd still need to lock it though surely to vid ref etc. and need an Avid Mojo even if it can injest live?

I've just had a look at our FOH rack even though the FOH rack has both external word clock in and out, in the setup menus I can see no obvious switch/option to lock to external wordclock or vid ref.

If you could do that then you could lock the PT sync I/O or the newer Sync HD to vid ref and LTC then clock the Venue to your PT system and everything is cool. If you needed to fire snapshots to TC you can MTC via the sync i/o to venue.

Avid I'm sure would have this area covered but I'm studying the manuals etc and not finding anything re clocking to ext wc only locking to MTC which of course is only positional info and not clock.

Sheldon perhaps you could chip in here?
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  #5  
Old 03-11-2010, 02:55 PM
Mystere1 Mystere1 is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

I'm attempting to do this with my new system, so far lots of problems. I was told all I needed was a Mojo SDI so thats what I got with the system. Last thing I was told by the Pro Tools support guy was that I needed to get a Sync IO/HD. I'm not a video guy, or a studio guy, so its been frustrating. I've got one more thing to try before I attempt to get a Sync box (Getting a $2k box now is going to be hard after I just spent everything on the system). Its been a real PITA to try and sort this out and find documentation on how to do this.

FYI, I'm running 70 Audio tracks, one composite video track with the Mojo, 3 internal audio drives & one FW800 video drive. 29.97 frame rate.

For some reason the video track ends about 2.5 seconds before the end of the audio tracks over a ~96 minute recording. I've attempted to sync it at the start of the tracks with the video offset but it doesnt seem to stay that way for very long.

Jeff
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Nicolas Lowman Nicolas Lowman is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

I am interested in taking the video in as well. From the way they talked it was recorded all with the same Mac. It didn't sound like it was a separate synced video recorder, just some local capture device. I would be really interested to hear about how that is setup.

Does anybody know where the monitor mounts that they were using for the profile in the same webinar can be sourced from?

Nicolas
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  #7  
Old 03-11-2010, 09:54 PM
Mystere1 Mystere1 is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

The Mojo is a capture device, It makes a video track in Pro tools, apparently you still need a Sync HD to make it sync though...

I'm pretty sure that I saw a Mojo and a Sync IO/HD at the top of the Pro Tools rack in the seminar.

I'm not sure what LMG uses for video arms but I'm rather fond of Ergotron stuff, I just picked up a pair for my setup. Newegg or tigerdirect have a bunch of different monitor arms.
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  #8  
Old 03-12-2010, 03:26 AM
Neil Pickles Neil Pickles is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystere1 View Post
I'm attempting to do this with my new system, so far lots of problems. I was told all I needed was a Mojo SDI so thats what I got with the system. Last thing I was told by the Pro Tools support guy was that I needed to get a Sync IO/HD. I'm not a video guy, or a studio guy, so its been frustrating. I've got one more thing to try before I attempt to get a Sync box (Getting a $2k box now is going to be hard after I just spent everything on the system). Its been a real PITA to try and sort this out and find documentation on how to do this.

FYI, I'm running 70 Audio tracks, one composite video track with the Mojo, 3 internal audio drives & one FW800 video drive. 29.97 frame rate.

For some reason the video track ends about 2.5 seconds before the end of the audio tracks over a ~96 minute recording. I've attempted to sync it at the start of the tracks with the video offset but it doesnt seem to stay that way for very long.

Jeff
That would tie in exactly with what I was saying re true synch requires a common clock for speed and timecode for positional info. If you only have time code then they will start at the same correct point in time but as the sample rate in the case of Pro Tools and Venue and the frame playback speed are not locked together they will effectively play at slightly different speeds. You will not notice this for a little while but on longer form video shoots it will eventually be sufficient to noticably drift out.

In a Post set up like we have in our Icon rooms we have a MOJO a video deck (the external capture device) and audio from pro tools.

The vid ref generator (black burst) is used to regulate playback speed of the video devices i.e. the video deck and Mojo these are not expensive devices a few hundred pounds. The sync IO or HD (a later model) locks to that Vid Ref and generates a 48 Khz clock locked to that video ref. This 48 Khz clock in a normal HD set up is then used as the loop master clock for all interfaces. Audio 48 Khz is therefore not going to drift out with Video as their playback speed is being regulated by this "House Clock the Vid Ref generator"

One of my questions is I can see an external WC in on my Venue system, surely I can just distribute word clock from my Sync IO or HD locked to vid ref to the Venue and its converters are now basically replacing my usual HD IO. I'm looking through all the pages of the setup menus and cannot find such an option? It might be hidden in a sub menu or something so I'm not saying 100% it isn't there.

The Sync IO reads/generates LTC and can send MTC to Venue so surely you can clock Venue to it? Timecode is not the issue here it's common clock.

If you can't lock it to ext clock from the Synch HD or IO or make that the Loop clock master for Venue, whilst its locked then you can't really use PT whilst its hooked up to a Venue as a fully synchronised audio recorder with fully synchronised Video recording.

I'm really an audio guy not Post guy but I know a fair bit about how PT and Video work and to do a proper fully synchronised job is not that easy.

There are other issues as well, if Venue is clocked via the Synch IO (if it can be) that clock might be slightly more jittery as it has to have wider tolerances to lock to Vid Ref, so audio will sound slighty less pristine. Not a huge difference. What if that external clock master Vid Ref gen was to be accidentally disconnected/powered/break off mid show?

Hi Sheldon could you clarify the external wc on Venue options? Can we lock our Sync HD or IO to vid ref and clock Venue to that?

One last thing everyone make sure that in your session set up on Pro Tools you have the correct frame rate chosen and time code session start times to match the video guys.

Look forward to hearing
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2010, 12:50 PM
Mystere1 Mystere1 is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

The wordclock in on the FOH rack automatically selects between internal and External. Just hook it up and the onscreen indicator by the clock changes from INT to EXT.
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2010, 01:17 PM
rdobra rdobra is offline
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Default Re: Video into PT for Virtual Soundcheck?

Hi Neil and everybody,

It is a digital inputs option card for your Stage box only - DSI card - so Mix rack owners won't have it. There is an World clock out connector for syncro your external digital devices. It has an automatic sample rate conversion and detection on input and obviously it's lockable. It will show on inputs with a slightly different configuration where you have few additional switches for Sample rate conversion (SRC) , ADAT and a led for locking your AES and ADAT connection.
It is the only one I could see it working in your scenario. Obviously as an input it can be soft patched to Pro Tools as one of the assignables.

Hope this helps,
Radu
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