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  #11  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Besides that, how do you repair drives and partitions? DiskWarrior is a no go for APFS and how it looks like never will be.
You don't.

APFS is written for flash storage (SSD's) and behave differently than spinning magnetic disks. SSD will take care of keeping the directory healthy, because of over-provisioning systems. You don't have that with spinners, which is why we have learnt to have some kind of DiskWarrior available. You also never defragment SSD storage.

And because APFS is written from ground up with SSD in mind, it might not be the best idea to use it with spinners. Because spinners need a DiskWarrior every now and then and APFS does not support those mechanisms.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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drives and partitions
In APFS nomenclature these are Containers and Volumes. Much more efficient than dealing with partition map. Usually one physical storage using APFS has one base Container that consumes all capacity, then one or more Volumes are added to that base Container.

If you want to, you can "partition" your "drive" having multiple Containers (partitions) that are independent of each others, then add volumes to whichever Container you wish. But if you partition like this, your VolumeX on Container2 is out of luck when Container2 runs out of space, even though Container1 would have free space. For certain scenarios adds a layer of simplicity though, when for example Container1 is for system and Container2 is for data, and you wish to rebuild system. Just leave Container2 intact and work with the Container1.

Perhaps too long a story, you already know how to partition. Just sayin' using those APFS Volumes (that can combined look like you can exceed your physical storage space considerably) is more flexible than straight up partitioning your storage (where the sum of space your partitions use cannot exceed storage capacity).
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:01 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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You don't.

APFS is written for flash storage (SSD's) and behave differently than spinning magnetic disks. SSD will take care of keeping the directory healthy, because of over-provisioning systems. You don't have that with spinners, which is why we have learnt to have some kind of DiskWarrior available. You also never defragment SSD storage.

And because APFS is written from ground up with SSD in mind, it might not be the best idea to use it with spinners. Because spinners need a DiskWarrior every now and then and APFS does not support those mechanisms.
Well, you might think I still use spinners, I don't unless for cheap backup purposes.
The fairytale never having to "defragment SSD storage" is not true.

Anyway, I use Samsung M.2 NVMe SSD's, all sizes between 256 GB to 2 TB.

The fairytale about APFS being the ultimate solution for SSD is something I will not buy. Since using APFS I had more trouble than in 30 years of using Macs, which is why I went back to HFS+.

Since having tested APFS extensively on all of my Macs startup is slower, period -and I do not startup from an NVMe as I know the speed they offer does not help for starting up. I investigated all this to death.

I am using HFS+ still and all is fine. Odd, right?
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:03 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
In APFS nomenclature these are Containers and Volumes. Much more efficient than dealing with partition map. Usually one physical storage using APFS has one base Container that consumes all capacity, then one or more Volumes are added to that base Container.

If you want to, you can "partition" your "drive" having multiple Containers (partitions) that are independent of each others, then add volumes to whichever Container you wish. But if you partition like this, your VolumeX on Container2 is out of luck when Container2 runs out of space, even though Container1 would have free space. For certain scenarios adds a layer of simplicity though, when for example Container1 is for system and Container2 is for data, and you wish to rebuild system. Just leave Container2 intact and work with the Container1.

Perhaps too long a story, you already know how to partition. Just sayin' using those APFS Volumes (that can combined look like you can exceed your physical storage space considerably) is more flexible than straight up partitioning your storage (where the sum of space your partitions use cannot exceed storage capacity).
Janne,

I appreciate your efforts.
I know a little bit of all this, and I thought you knew.

No need to educate me.
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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I am using HFS+ still and all is fine. Odd, right?
Good then
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2020, 03:13 PM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Good then
Not really as you miseducate users.

APFS is nowhere to be ready for pro audio.
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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APFS is nowhere to be ready for pro audio.
Huh? Been solid here, but granted not so much experience yet compared to HFS+

Boot times are irrelevant to me, I only boot after a dot-update of the operating system and leave my "server" on 24/7. Haven't even thought of timing that boot process

Real-time performance isn't bad either; on this PCIe 2.0 limited 2013 iTrashcan I get 1150MB/s write 1350 MB/s read (Intel p660 2TB M.2 with Sintech adapter, spec says 1800 MB/s maximum for the storage and 2000 MB/s for PCIe 2.0 x4) so at least file system is not doing anything so very bad. But I must admit testing HFS+ system for benchmarking purposes has not even come to my mind.

The point about DiskWarrior or such is also irrelevant to me, because I have backups and backups of backups. I am just that much of a nerd that I want to take time to get it right. So once in a blue moon if I had trouble with my startup disk, it would be much faster to recover from my backups anyway. I spend much much more time taking backups than recovering from them.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Originally Posted by Oliver M View Post
Well, you might think I still use spinners, I don't unless for cheap backup purposes.
The fairytale never having to "defragment SSD storage" is not true.

Anyway, I use Samsung M.2 NVMe SSD's, all sizes between 256 GB to 2 TB.

The fairytale about APFS being the ultimate solution for SSD is something I will not buy. Since using APFS I had more trouble than in 30 years of using Macs, which is why I went back to HFS+.

Since having tested APFS extensively on all of my Macs startup is slower, period -and I do not startup from an NVMe as I know the speed they offer does not help for starting up. I investigated all this to death.

I am using HFS+ still and all is fine. Odd, right?
When you went to apfs did you zap your pram/nvram? When I jumped to OSX 10.13.6 on my 2012 cheesegrater my system drive (Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB on a pcie adapter) my boot times got horrendous - much slower than when I ran OSX 10.12.6 Did some digging and found that zapping the pram/nvram would cure all sorts of ills so I did that. After the pong start-up chime I get a working desktop in 15 seconds which is pretty darned good. I sincerely you 'investigated all this to death' or you wouldn't have the problem you say you had.

Besides to do hfs in High Sierra or later takes some hoop jumping to do.

Oh yeah - defragging any Mac drive has never really been a good idea, at least not with a defrag program. I've seen where a defragged drive actually was slower than before defragging and that goes back to System 6 days.
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2020, 06:49 AM
Oliver M Oliver M is offline
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

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Huh? Been solid here,
I apologize.
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  #20  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: APFS or Extended Journaled for session drive?

Guys tell me why are you so concerned about boot time? It's not like you need to shutdown every time you need to close your laptop lid... I mean, boot time tells absolutely nothing about storage speed. It only tells you how fast or slow your boot sequence is finishing.
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