EUCON over WAN

[devinemke]

Hoping that either @creativecontrol and/or @EddieJones can maybe help with this:

I have been asked to help set up a Pro Tools recording/mixing situation where the operator is in Nashville and the PT rig is in NYC.
We are going to use VNC or more likely Teradici PCoIP as the remote KVM control. That part has worked in the past and we are confident about it.

We are also being asked if the Nashville rig can have an S1/S3 remotely control the NYC PT session.
Is this possible/practical?
Does EUCON work over WAN?
If so, is the expected latency between the control surface and the PT rig workable?

Eager to see if anyone has ever had this working and can share tips.
I did look at the current EUCON Networking Guidelines but did not see anything relevant.

Thanks

[its2loud]

Hi Devin,

I inquired about this with Eddie a couple of years ago and back then this wasn't possible. I don't believe anything has changed on that front but perhaps Eddie can chime in further.

[EddieJones]

Whilst Avid hasn't done these tests, I do know of at least two people that have had some success with this. As EUCON uses Bonjour you have to create a VPN that puts both ends on the same subnet. Routers like Microtik have these settings.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by devinemke

Hoping that either @creativecontrol and/or @EddieJones can maybe help with this:

I have been asked to help set up a Pro Tools recording/mixing situation where the operator is in Nashville and the PT rig is in NYC.
We are going to use VNC or more likely Teradici PCoIP as the remote KVM control. That part has worked in the past and we are confident about it.

We are also being asked if the Nashville rig can have an S1/S3 remotely control the NYC PT session.
Is this possible/practical?
Does EUCON work over WAN?
If so, is the expected latency between the control surface and the PT rig workable?

Eager to see if anyone has ever had this working and can share tips.
I did look at the current EUCON Networking Guidelines but did not see anything relevant.

Thanks

This should work across a site to site VPN (you'll probably need to use something with low latency (WireGuard for example) but you'll enter the world of latency and will live at the mercy of packet latency which is nothing you will be able to control or improve if a given connection as issues at times. But since the audio comes in over IP as well I'm not sure if the sum of all latencies will allow someone to mix (move the faders) in sync to what's ACTUALLY playing back in that moment on the remote rig. You'll need to test that.

Screen sharing, audio and Eucon will arrive/send all at different latencies. Source connect can have a couple of seconds of "travel time" so even if your Eucon works and is very fast you'd be moving your faders to audio that SECONDS behind than your fader movement writing automation in spots that are WAY off from what the mixer is actually hearing so you'll somehow have to match all those delays.

In the end it might be easier to share the data, mix locally and stream the mix to the remote site and not doing it the other way around but it's an interesting question. I've always wanted to test a Satellite link over a site-to-site-VPN but I'm not sure if the necessary UDP traffic would tunnel a VPN.

[its2loud]

Food for thought..even if you could get Eucon to work over WAN, I would never use Source Connect for the audio portion. There are much better applications for sending high quality audio with very low latency. SonoBus is one of them at around 15-30ms depending. However, even at that low latency, mixing with complete accuracy over WAN would be challenging unless you’ve measured the latency for both audio and Eucon and compensated for the delay.

[devinemke]

We will be using the Telos Z/IP ONE Broadcast IP Codec for the audio connectivity and Teradici PCoIP for the KVM control.
Based on the replies here, I am not very optimistic about getting EUCON to work reliably, but will try and report back.
Thanks for the info.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Food for thought..even if you could get Eucon to work over WAN, I would never use Source Connect for the audio portion. There are much better applications for sending high quality audio with very low latency. SonoBus is one of them at around 15-30ms depending. However, even at that low latency, mixing with complete accuracy over WAN would be challenging unless you’ve measured the latency for both audio and Eucon and compensated for the delay.

SC was just an example to illustrate what I meant.

[kosmokrator]

Originally Posted by devinemke

We will be using the Telos Z/IP ONE Broadcast IP Codec for the audio connectivity and Teradici PCoIP for the KVM control.
Based on the replies here, I am not very optimistic about getting EUCON to work reliably, but will try and report back.
Thanks for the info.

Why do you want to use something different than PCoIP for the 'audio connectivity'?

Teradci streams the sound too and also has a feature called 'enhanced A/V sync' or similar, which improves the biggest problem all the remote options we tested have, which is inconsistency between the playhead position (GUI) and the audio you hear.
That is before even bringing Eucon to the table..

For editing and graphics workstations those remote solutions work great, for audio not yet from my experience. But I keep on trying.
Looking into Parsec, and also maybe remote-controlling a windows-based PT machine, since PCoIP seems to work better than with a Mac host.

[Brandon.hortman]

What happened with this. I'm very interested in your progress