Sound Quality issue

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Soeren

Kontakt instrument level lowered, volume increased by an other pro maximizer, and meter measurement for peaks.

Sound is exactly the same, it's probably coming from the library itself. EWQL seems to sound better. I guess I'll have to keep up with that issue.

How many times do you have to be told it's not the library in use but your technique.

Lose the pro maximizer and any other limiters or compressors. You're trying to fight the volume wars all over again and that's a waste of time. Get a good sounding mix without the gimmicks first. You may be pleasantly surprised how good that sounds. There are plenty of ways to add clean level if you think you need it.

[Soeren]

ok I get your point....my music saturate on high loudness. You are telling me to keep it at -20db and enjoy the sound....soon or later this has to be increased for final mix, and I dont know what tool to use. Since I can't crank the sound up enough to hear if it gets better before adding levellers or maximizers, then that ends up being stuck in the same issue anyway. -20db for example, because I use EQ settings that low the volume. What you mean is that I shouldn't have any volume loss during the whole mix ? how to get -3db at the end, I'm curious.Tell me what type of tools you would use during the whole mix if not maximizers, compressors or limiters ?

[Soeren]

I've tried what you said, original instrument, green line, no extra levellers compressors or maximizer added. Same...

Actually I think I'm tripping. I was just distinguishing a lack of harmony and pureness, and more with the volume increase. It sounds like old days when I used to work in 44 khz 16 bits, but all my soundcard and softwares setting are ok. This is mostly a matter of hardware quality, I mean a 900$ engine can't do what a 40 000 $ does. Only thing to consider is that virtual instruments, strings etc, will never compete with original soundtracks composers with real strings. Correct me if I'm wrong on that point. This is not a matter of levelling I guess. My comps sound fake, unharmonious, it screams in your ears and you don't enjoy, because of quality. Mastering process may play a part of it, but I can tell you thats not the cause. I*'ve also paid attention to same soundbank sound on the net (session strings pro, symphony series string ensemble etc...), and this is the same problem. Maybe I am too purist...

I'm gonna send you the comp in next message. I hope it will pass, because links get blocked by web supervisor...any way listen to it in normal volume and please give me your opinion

[Soeren]

Sound quality reference example

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2...jZWNGZiTEMxX3M

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Soeren

ok I get your point....my music saturate on high loudness. You are telling me to keep it at -20db and enjoy the sound....soon or later this has to be increased for final mix, and I dont know what tool to use. Since I can't crank the sound up enough to hear if it gets better before adding levellers or maximizers, then that ends up being stuck in the same issue anyway. -20db for example, because I use EQ settings that low the volume. What you mean is that I shouldn't have any volume loss during the whole mix ? how to get -3db at the end, I'm curious.Tell me what type of tools you would use during the whole mix if not maximizers, compressors or limiters ?

You really NEED to learn some basic good audio processing steps. Maximizers and limiters are a crutch, nothing more. Like I say I use a brickwall limiter to catch the odd over - nothing more. Would never use a maximizer. Compressors are to be used to keep levels from going all over the place - not to maximize level. Think of compressors like the glue that holds a mix together.

Nowheres did I say to keep a mix at -20. Google Katz and levels and K-system metering. I typically work at K-14 levels. If you have everything at -3db it's no wonder your mixes sound like crap. Dynamic range is the key. Until you learn this there's no use in this back and forth.

[Soeren]

Ok I understand, you're right I guess.

I use maximizer and have already noticed a crushed sound in the past.
Brickwall limiter is the purpose I use it for.
I don't use compressors to increase overall level, only to increase and balance parts that are very very low.

1) No way to notice any quality improvement if the sound is -14db, it'll sound nicer to the ear though.

2) At this -14db, or even -6db, devices like let say smartphones with headphones plugged in, the song won't be able to be heard enough, too low, not enjoyable.-6db is an hard limit already weak with a lack of power. With devices like hifi speakers or car speakers, you will have to increase manually the volume which I figured put artefacts and resonance in the bass and so on.
This is the reason why I've ended up increasing to -3db standard.

I can agree the music will sound absolutely better and softer at - 14db, which is almost the level I mix !!
But what can you tell me about the number 2) issue I'm pointing at ??


Either ways I take your answers with care and I express my gratitude for your concern and your help. I'll make tests with what you suggest and see.

Later

[Soeren]

Ok, I did follow what you said, played with levelling, adjusting volume for all the layers of instruments, in all files, one by one, plus on the total mix. This gives a lot better result, root to the end I kept it low.

However once at -50db (for example, really low), what option do I have to set it back to normal loudness, excluding Maximizer ?? Gain wouldn't be a better option would it ?

From that point I have enough to work, my questions remain, but I'm happy to have found something thanks to you ! ;-)

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Soeren

Ok I understand, you're right I guess.

I use maximizer and have already noticed a crushed sound in the past.
Brickwall limiter is the purpose I use it for.
I don't use compressors to increase overall level, only to increase and balance parts that are very very low.

1) No way to notice any quality improvement if the sound is -14db, it'll sound nicer to the ear though.

2) At this -14db, or even -6db, devices like let say smartphones with headphones plugged in, the song won't be able to be heard enough, too low, not enjoyable.-6db is an hard limit already weak with a lack of power. With devices like hifi speakers or car speakers, you will have to increase manually the volume which I figured put artefacts and resonance in the bass and so on.
This is the reason why I've ended up increasing to -3db standard.

I can agree the music will sound absolutely better and softer at - 14db, which is almost the level I mix !!
But what can you tell me about the number 2) issue I'm pointing at ??


Either ways I take your answers with care and I express my gratitude for your concern and your help. I'll make tests with what you suggest and see.

Later

Smartphones can have plenty of volume provided you're using the right headphones. Not all 'phones can be driven to the same volume due to differences in the way they're designed. As you discovered - people need to use the volume control.

Originally Posted by Soeren

Ok, I did follow what you said, played with levelling, adjusting volume for all the layers of instruments, in all files, one by one, plus on the total mix. This gives a lot better result, root to the end I kept it low.

However once at -50db (for example, really low), what option do I have to set it back to normal loudness, excluding Maximizer ?? Gain wouldn't be a better option would it ?

From that point I have enough to work, my questions remain, but I'm happy to have found something thanks to you ! ;-)

How are you getting -50dB? That's nuts. A lot of metering plugins have color-coded levels in addition to the numbers - you want to shoot for just barely tickling the yellow level if at all and you never want red. Stay in the green for the most part.

Did you read up on the K-system metering and it's uses? You really need to. And there's a number of metering plugins that use it. Buy one and learn to use it well - your ears and everyone else's will thank you.

[Soeren]

I will get interest in k-meter. For now I already have several metering plugin. I can stick to a green signal and see. My -50db comp (more 30 actually) is a problem I could fix by adjusting each instrument volume at each step of production.
However at some point, soon or later, I resort to maximizer, limiter, or gain...
So I get what you mean, never go too low, never go too high, makes sens. I am going to take all that back tonight, we'll see.

My smartphone doesn't make -6db loud enough, as well as my car speakers. But I will stick to levels I can find with real soundtracks.

I have to watch for balance for real. Thanks to point that out.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Soeren

I will get interest in k-meter. For now I already have several metering plugin. I can stick to a green signal and see. My -50db comp (more 30 actually) is a problem I could fix by adjusting each instrument volume at each step of production.
However at some point, soon or later, I resort to maximizer, limiter, or gain...
So I get what you mean, never go too low, never go too high, makes sens. I am going to take all that back tonight, we'll see.

My smartphone doesn't make -6db loud enough, as well as my car speakers. But I will stick to levels I can find with real soundtracks.

I have to watch for balance for real. Thanks to point that out.

Like I said earlier you REALLY need to learn proper mixing and gain staging to get where you want. All those gizmos you're talking about are crutches for those who can't or don't want to put the time in to do things right. Of course if you don't know proper working with digital audio recording that's another matter altogether.

If your phone or car audio system can't make -6 loud enough for you you really need to have your ears checked by a doctor. Or learn what real audio recording sounds like.