Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-23-2009, 11:50 PM
aztlan2010 aztlan2010 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Diego
Posts: 227
Default Sound modules too low into 192

why are my modules coming in at -20db all the way up into PT? New system, can't figure out why the external modules are coming into the 192 so low. the internal plug ins are fine, but for whatever reason the Virus TI and minimoog are coming in very low, when turned all the way up, checked output and thats all the way up too.

could it be the cables I believe they are balanced into the 192.


thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-24-2009, 12:30 AM
bobo mark bobo mark is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: hongkong
Posts: 245
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

you need some preamp to line level input.... Now days people really forget about the A.B, C of engineering. mic level, instrument level, line level (+4 or -10dB) are all different level....etc. We call it gain stage.
__________________
Regards
Bobo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-24-2009, 05:08 AM
BradLyons BradLyons is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 2,989
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

Some keyboards are hotter output than others, some are balanced, some are not, some have unbalanced +4dB while others are balanced -10dB---think about that one! :) IMHO, a submixer is ideal---even something as simple as the Alesis MultiMix 12R, it actually does a good little job.
__________________
Thank you,
Brad Lyons
www.howavl.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-24-2009, 05:11 AM
TCDet TCDet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Detroit
Posts: 903
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

Try the 192's B inputs that are -10dbv although instrument D/I's to +4 would likely match/sound better.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-24-2009, 06:04 PM
aztlan2010 aztlan2010 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Diego
Posts: 227
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

yes -10db does bring them up nicely but I do sense the sound quality isn't there . . is that possible?

I guess I'm back to routing through the c24 and not going straight into the 192?

oh well,another $200 cable to buy?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-24-2009, 08:18 PM
Andre Knecht Andre Knecht is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 2,193
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by aztlan2010 View Post
yes -10db does bring them up nicely but I do sense the sound quality isn't there . . is that possible?
Indeed it is! It’s the difference between acceptable and great. A difference which will manifest itself in obvious ways with an instrument as “ballsy” (to use a technical term) as a Minimoog. The best way to extract that last ounce of phat is — as briefly indicated earlier — by using a good DI box + a good preamp, or a good preamp featuring a well-designed built-in DI. Make no mistake about it… this is one instance where there is no such thing as cutting corners. Really good DI/Preamps do cost money. The good news is that the price/performance ratio in this segment of the recording equipment market seems to be more stable and linear than that of, say, microphones.

Quote:
I guess I'm back to routing through the c24 and not going straight into the 192?
If that gives you better result, by all means do it that way. Then start exploring the above, because the Pres found in a C24, while serviceable, aren’t sonic milestones by any stretch.

IHTH.

__________________
Andre Knecht

We’ll fix it in the shrink-wrap. (Frank Zappa)

.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-24-2009, 09:10 PM
zakco zakco is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 659
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by aztlan2010 View Post
yes -10db does bring them up nicely but I do sense the sound quality isn't there . . is that possible?
Yes. You're experiencing an impedance mismatch. Most dedicated AD/DA boxes are not designed to interface directly with instruments. You need a preamp with HiZ inputs or a decent DI/mic preamp combo.

Quote:
guess I'm back to routing through the c24 and not going straight into the 192?
That will work, but you could do much better quality wise than the instrument inputs of a c24. Do you have any decent outboard mic preamps?

Quote:
oh well,another $200 cable to buy?
I don't follow you there...

edit: I hadn't refreshed my browser and didn't seen Andre's post...what he said.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:55 AM
aztlan2010 aztlan2010 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Diego
Posts: 227
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

thanks all. I have a Focusrite Red 8 that I could run 2 through. would that make sense?

the third module (either Access Virus TI or Yamaha Motif) does have spidif out, so should I use the spidif for one of these? Or switch up between the 3 (into the 2 inputs) when I do record midi to audio?

Just so I get it, don't go into the c24 for best quality (either into submixer or pres)?

thanks again, this board has helped greatly!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-25-2009, 07:37 AM
Sean Russell Sean Russell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 1,287
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

Yes. Preamps help keys. Our Moogs here usually find their way to API before a 192. Through the patchbay :). Yes, studios use those too. And I avoid anything with the Control24 or C-24 at all costs. Source to pre to converter unless you want to get fancy and throw a compressor in there.

Your Red 8 doesn't have front panel DI. API does. So do other pre's like Manley and Focusrite ISA, Avalon, etc. Get a couple of DI's to raise your key's levels and drive that into the Red 8. No funky cables needed.
__________________
... but does it help the chorus?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-25-2009, 08:26 AM
zakco zakco is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 659
Default Re: Sound modules too low into 192

And obviously don't cheap out on the DIs. Your signal path is only as good as the weakest link.

Not trying to be a jerk, but I would honestly consider taking a course or at the very least, doing some reading on the fundamentals of audio. Getting some basic knowledge about signal path, impedance, connector standards etc would give you a real head start with this stuff.

It's hard to believe that tools like this are being purchased without this very fundamental knowledge behind them...

Good luck!

-Z-
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PT9 + sound modules? Oroz Pro Tools 9 0 11-29-2010 09:16 PM
xBox as sound modules?? CraigLearmont Pro Tools TDM Systems (Win) 0 01-12-2004 10:01 AM
Midi sound Modules!! what do you use? Blake Henderson 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 10 08-02-2002 09:43 AM
GigaSampler, Sound Modules and us... Mark_Knecht 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 20 02-17-2002 12:25 AM
Procontrol mixing w/ sound modules Jon Rezin ProControl, Control|24, Command|8 8 11-08-2000 10:34 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com